Windsave test site

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Windsave test site

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nathanbriggs

Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Chester

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 2:52 pm Post subject: Windsave test site
Hi All This is my first attempt at the windsave test site page, please bear with me as I try and add more hard data, if you think one particular aspect deserves more attention post it here and I will try and satisfy https://www.aelgroup.co.uk/htm/windturbine.htm

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45723
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 2:54 pm Post subject:
Thanks for that Nathan

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 3:00 pm Post subject:
Excellent, Nathan. How long before something temporary becomes permanent? Peter.

sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42223
Location: North Devon

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 3:01 pm Post subject:
Thanks Nathan. I think a lot of members will be keen to see the results.

hils

Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 568
Location: Nottingham

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 4:33 pm Post subject:
hi nathan I'm really interested in this but know nothing about it. So here are a few questions: -If I was able to cope with power cuts (no wind) could this be my only source of electricity for a static caravan? -we do have a genny for emergencies -approx how much is it? -could it be moved occasionally? Cheers H

Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 5:36 pm Post subject:

in response to hills
simply no, this is not suitable for stand alone generation.
In this case the correct answer is some form of storage (normally based on car battery) an inverter and a charger sometimes these last two are the same box, there are good wind proucts to provide the charging from marine and caravan resellers
its around �1000 for equipment and then install on top estimated as not yet for sale
it is in theory moveable but you need something pretty immovable to install it I would imagine a static caravan could be "moved" by it
check out the air-x machine for a better fit to your application

nathanbriggs

Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Chester

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 5:42 pm Post subject:

that was me as guest agin keep forgetting to login

in response to questions criticisms form other topics

dougal wrote:

Umm Nathan, is the current price expectation now �2,000 rather than the �1,500 of the late May 2005 press releases?
Or the �750 "costs" of the product that was already being described as "developed" in January 04? (Some even say the product was "launched" then!)

the equipment costs around �750 ie generator and inverter, the pole and bracketry is VERY dependant on siting but �250 should cover worst case. The plan is to get installation done by trained installers (British Gas are training teams NOW) my guess is that the �500 quoted as an "average" will be on the low end, much depends on wether you have a newly wired house etc. unfortunately ALL domestic installs will come under "Part P" of the wiring regs and this adds costs

nathanbriggs

Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Chester

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 5:47 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

I'd have expected the shut off facility to be much more expensive than requiring hardwiring in a similar fashion to a bathroom electric towel rail.

The shut off facility has to be there anyway for safety during mains failure and yes it is expensive! Windsave is trying to convince the commitee responsible for wiring regs that since the cutoff is a requirement it should make 13A plug and socket connection possible. Depending on when you ask me I have different opinions wether we will get it through the committee or not.

I am totally confident that the plug connection as as safe as any other domestic appliance.

nathanbriggs

Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Chester

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 5:51 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

I'm puzzled that the Windsave might use any socket, and yet the Whispergen CHP boiler (now on sale �3000, fully installed, with 5 years service contract as a central heating boiler & 1.2kw generator) specifically needs its own dedicated spur back to the consumer unit. Any idea why?

I DO NOT speak for whispergen, however they are also making presentations to the commitee. Since the plug and socket hasn't been finally approved whispergen have gone to market with a dedicated spur.
Further because their average output is higher there are some arguments for going all the way back to the dis board

nathanbriggs

Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Chester

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 5:54 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

Nathan, are you in a position to clarify EXACTLY HOW the Windsave is intended to be mounted?
A chimney mount above ridge level would obviously be ideal for performance. But I understand that raises questions of planning approval. And I'd expect, structural issues too, exacerbated by a long enough pole to allow the blades to clear the chimney pots.
Wall mounting a pole would have to be on a flat gable end, otherwise there are going to be 'issues' with roof overhang and guttering.
What are Windsave intending?

Mounting brackets with u's around a pole of rolled steel.
You are quite correct on positioning and planning, although windsave is campaigning for blanket approval
There is the possibility in the bracketry to extend out past a gutter before pole attachment but this imo looks untidy

nathanbriggs

Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Chester

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 6:02 pm Post subject:

dougal wrote:

Precisely how many Windsave installations have you seen?

We are heading for 50 "sites" at the moment although several of those are multiple blades at one location.

I personally have seen 4 and video of 8 more. I think a general member of the public might reasonably have seen that many. Of course there are a lot of microgeneration turbines out there which aren't Windsave, but part of the successful marketing campaign has been a general perception small turbine=windsave.

Hopefully we will get to vacuum cleaner = hoover status!

Lastly if you really want to travel, you can see our test site at
AEL see www.advancepark.co.uk for a map. (please ring first if you want the 5 cent tour)

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Mon Jul 18, 05 7:33 pm Post subject:

Nathan, thanks for all that.
Do you have a pole-top windspeed meter (ventimeter/annemometer?) such that you could show, even very roughly, how the real output varies with windspeed?

Presumably, you have some instrumentation that will enable you to post a running record of total hours of operation vs kwh generated. I know there's going to be a big short term and seasonal variation... so maybe weekly totals?

Your valley. How deep/wide? And what orientation? I spent a summer trying to teach sailing at a summer camp in upstate New York - it was pretty futile as the 200' deep valley ran at right angles to the prevailing wind. Lots of pretty spirals in the morning mist over the lake!

It looks as though the thing is mounted to the steel framework of your 'shed' - I'd expect that to be more noise transmissive than most mountings - have you had enough wind to notice it yet?

And on mounting - as I've said previously - I don't reckon it'd be much use mounted *below* ridge height, as required for permitted development under planning controls. Are you saying that Windsave are applying for a national exemption from that limitation? And how high would they want to, or be allowed to stick it?

And, hey, it is good to see that it really looks like something is happening!

nathanbriggs

Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Chester

Posted: Tue Jul 19, 05 2:19 pm Post subject:

Yes we do have an anemometer, just at the moment a problem with the logging
1) awaiting a computer to come free to log the data
2) insanity that the windspeed will log instantaneous data every minute (not finer/ nor average) and the difficulty of getting a time matched log of the wattage at the same moment
3) Average windspeed at AEL is 3.8m/s and cut in speed in 4m/s so need one or two REALLY windy days to get any solid data

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45723
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 05 12:35 pm Post subject:
An architectural practice (AECB member) is having a Windsave installed soon, I'll keep you updated with any news.

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