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Downsizer Forum Index -> Energy Efficiency and Construction/Major Projects

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dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46052
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 24 9:08 am Post subject:

maybe, if folk see an advantage to them

in other news BYD have done a deal with turkey to build a large factory facility

easy access to the EU and the ME/FE, Byzantium was built on such trade

another brexit bonus, probably, although turkey has been making ace transit vans etc for ages so they do have the skills infrastructure and many potential trainees

if i was choosing where to put a major ev plant, turkey makes more sense than brexited and blighted blighty

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45612
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 24 10:05 am Post subject:

dpack wrote:

if i was choosing where to put a major ev plant, turkey makes more sense than brexited and blighted blighty

Yep

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46052
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 24 2:30 pm Post subject:
good thing i don't have "international" scale ambitions science, human skills, history, politics and geography are useful background knowledge to do "big"business if i was going to, i would have gone for it ages ago:lol:

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15836

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 24 6:13 am Post subject:
All this is true and could well happen. I know we have National Grid to distribute the power, but with fragmented systems at each end it might be difficult to get the electricity generated coordinated and at the other end to the ultimate consumer.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45612
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 24 6:56 am Post subject:
Labour are committed to sorting the grid out. New charger installs are happening at quite some speed now: https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jul/15/electric-vehicle-ev-chargers-uk-installations

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6594
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 24 12:52 pm Post subject:
The grid will be important, but not as critical as one thought as it becomes more and more decentralized (and more resilient because of that)

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28203
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 24 5:30 am Post subject:

Slim wrote:

The grid will be important, but not as critical as one thought as it becomes more and more decentralized (and more resilient because of that)

Was reading a USA research paper yesterday looking at grids, batteries and renewables yesterday and it's basic conclusion was grid infrastructure expensive, batteries and solar cheap.
Local is increasingly the way to go. Well I think it put it rather more strongly than that.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28203
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 24 5:51 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Labour are committed to sorting the grid out.

Some of the need to "sort the grid out" comes from the blocking of onshore wind meaning we need to get electricity from Scotland.
Now onshore wind is allowed it seems entirely possible that some of the blocked major grid projects could actually become massive white elephants.
I'm not going to be a "facebook engineer" and claim I know that to be so for sure and it is also the case the interconnectivity makes for resilience, but clearly what is needed for the grid cannot be separated from what is happening with growth in onshore wind and solar.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15836

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 24 6:56 am Post subject:

As it becomes more fragmented an overall plan is even more necessary. In some weather a lot of electricity is going to be generated by wind, and solar during the day, and that needs to be stored and distributed for use at night and when the wind isn't blowing. There is also, as I said, the distribution to the end user. Some people will be partly generating and storing their own, some will not, and they need to have the wherewithal to get their needs from some centralised pool. In some cases, particularly in cities which have had electricity since the first half of the 20th century, the last bit needs a massive overhaul.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46052
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 24 8:12 am Post subject:

a combination of integrated tech would be ideal, re remaking the old distribution wires in towns and cities for this century it is a huge job, but it does need doing

in some places the distribution goes back to late victorian, much is first quarter 20th C, some is modern

ditto the domestic side of the head

many houses have shocking one piece at a time wires

my spot on dateable record was 1897, rather thin, copper in silk and varnish insulation and wood twin groove trunking, still powering lights in 1995

stump spurs and legacy circuits from alterations are fun as well

this house has had some of the worst bits mended and replacement circuits for the kitchen, but i would fail it on mk1 eyeball with no need of meter or poking about tools from zoning and legacy issues

if and it is a big if the local and grid networks were renewded to the necessary capacities and full grants were available for panels ,heat pumps, batteries, chargers, connectivity etc, there would need to be a grant for a full domestic side upgrade to "borg" with modern tech without breaking or failing catastrophically

a bit like the swap from coal gas to drilled gas in the 1960's

the profits from renewable are as good or better than those from fossil, it could self fund the infrastructure upgrades needed

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45612
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 24 9:40 am Post subject:
https://www.sustainable-bus.com/alternative-drive-coach/ember-loan-triodos-bank-electric-coaches/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46052
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Jul 17, 24 7:38 pm Post subject:
if they can get 21 hours route time before a full recharge as a shuttle bus and it can do a moderate long distance with no, or a bit of fast, extra charging, they will be practical for intercity runs as well they also look a bit comfier than i remember national express coaches being

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15836

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 24 7:01 am Post subject:

Agree with you totally Dpack. The system will need overhaul from generation to and including end user. Husband went to a house to do some rewiring where the insulation had disintegrated off the house side of the input it was so old, and took out some even older wiring than you had. As an aside, when we were renovating our 1870s first house, the gas pipes for the gas lights were still in the walls although sealed off.

Apart from the fact the buses have to be sourced from China, those buses sound good. I haven't been on a coach for years, but some of our local buses at over 30mph aren't exactly comfortable, although the newer ones are rather better. At least the very old buses couldn't manage more than 30mph.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45612
Location: Essex

Posted: Thu Jul 18, 24 8:34 am Post subject:

Mistress Rose wrote:

Apart from the fact the buses have to be sourced from China, those buses sound good.

We haven't really made buses for decades, not since Leyland/Dennis (current Dennis is a different beast). Because buses are big they're generally made in the UK but with drivetrains from Volvo, Scania and now YuTong and BYD.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28203
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 24 6:19 am Post subject:

tahir wrote:

https://www.sustainable-bus.com/alternative-drive-coach/ember-loan-triodos-bank-electric-coaches/

I'm not quite getting how they will survive?
I'd assume that in a couple of years National Express and others will buy their own fleets of electric buses that by then will be much cheaper and better and eat Ember's lunch.

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