hosepipe ban

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Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 23 4:23 pm Post subject: hosepipe ban

We are starting a hosepipe ban here (Devon) from next week, Cornwall have had a ban since last summer.

Never known a hosepipe ban so very early in the year, but the reservoirs have not recovered since last summer... and more and more houses are being built.. but not more and more reservoirs.

I don't see the ban being lifted before the end of summer, which means I am wondering how much veg I can grow this year, as the carrying of multiple watering cans is daunting at least.
Whilst I collect a lot of rain water, most is not near where I grow veg, it is collected off the barns etc, and was previously used for the livestock. still is a bit.

Last year I invested in a battery pump to move water from where I collect it to nearer to where I need it. Time to speed up the plans for collecting and storing it near the veg beds

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15603

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 23 8:25 am Post subject:

I would agree with you on getting the water storage nearer to the veg beds. We are fortunate that our house is higher than the veg garden, so at least we can use gravity. We also collect water from the greenhouse roof and have tanks under it so it can be hand pumped up.

In this area they are finally starting work on a new reservoir; not without a lot of opposition. There is also a plan to use recycled water in it which will reduce the amount of storm water mixing with sewage and being discharged out into the sea, but not too sure about how good an idea it is, and finding real answers to my questions seems difficult. The reservoir itself has been planned for well over 50 years, but when our water company first wanted to actually build it 10-20 years ago, Ofwat stopped them saying they had to improve leaks first. They actually have a very low level of leaks, but during the last 50 years the amount of house building has been tremendous. They have now started work, so when the weather improves, hope to go to see how they are getting on.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45524
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 23 11:03 am Post subject:
is your water company the one that gives every Malaysian child a new laptop on a regular basis? i am happy they get IT kit, but not so happy that you have got huge bills, polluted rivers and coasts and are being restricted from using water you pay them to supply you cos they have not invested in the ways originally suggested would happen when thatcher stole our water and sold it

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45524
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 23 11:38 am Post subject:

re your veg water, a smallish volume but powerful pressure pump(fast transfer is not the issue, distance and maybe elevation is), either solar and battery, battery/mains. at a push a borrowed ice pump would move a couple of cubic meters in minutes from collection storage to veg bed storage

it seems unlikely the mains supply will be improved any decade soon so plan for the future

how much water do you need at the vegbed end?
how far is it?
what are the elevation profiles between collection and use?

between us, we can find a cheap and easy solution to what is likely to be an ongoing issue

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 23 3:57 pm Post subject:

unfortunately the main collection and storage area is downhill from the veg beds. The house is slightly higher up but there is very tight space so nowhere to store water. I already collect and store water to serve the greenhouses and pots, but do run out if we have an exceptionally dry summer. Like last year.

How much water do I need for the veg beds? very variable. Generally I do a bit of watering in when the new plants go in, and generally I don't have to water much after that. But in exceptional circumstances - like last year - I have to water every day or lose everything. I am assuming we will have more 'exceptional' summers from here on in, and we should prepare for those.

I've been surveying and thinking and I don't think I can hope to store enough near the veg beds for dry summers, but anything I can do will help... the rest will have to be moved about - last year I bought a pump and one charge of the electric battery was enough to pump half an IBC 60ft up hill to another IBC, and from there I can use the pump to do the actual watering.. it comes out at a rate of 'slow hosepipe' so thats fine.

What would be better would be gravity fed of course.

Slim

Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 6540
Location: New England (In the US of A)

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 23 4:54 pm Post subject:
Collecting rainwater always has the difficulty of not being available when most needed, so long term reserves are required

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8621
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 23 7:57 pm Post subject:
I know it depends on flowing water, but might a hydraulic ram pump fit in anywhere?

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 23 9:22 pm Post subject:

gz wrote:

I know it depends on flowing water, but might a hydraulic ram pump fit in anywhere?

ram pumps are a brilliant bit of kit aren't they - there was one in use on my parents farm - it just fed a water trough, but did it's job nonetheless.

Unfortunately I don't have a source of running water to pump water from. I guess it must be possible to set something up from a tap running into it, but I can't visualise a set up that would work.

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15603

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 23 7:41 am Post subject:
Dpack, not sure if you are talking to Nicky or me, but don't think ours does as it is quite a small local one. Our sewage is dealt with by a larger company that doesn't have a good record, but of course we can't chose who deals with that. It could be them trying to make themselves look better.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45524
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 23 8:34 am Post subject:

re the water ownership, tis one of the ones in south-west britain

nicky, the pump seems to work, maybe bigger storage by the veg and collect more rain for use later

looking at it a different way, adding volume and quality to the soil will increase the natural water retention and reduce the need for watering

blessed are the dung makers

masses of deep litter etc added to the soil gives a natural reservoir that catches rain and reduces the need for watering

in a drought you will still need stored or piped water even with a water retaining soil, but you will need a lot less

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 23 1:23 pm Post subject:

I'm already doing the no-dig approach to gardening, which does help retain water, but it has its limits.

I have discovered buried deep on their website that the water company do allow discretionary exemptions for a number of things including "Watering food crops at domestic premises or private allotments using a hosepipe" - So perhaps I should be spending my efforts making a huge sign pointing to this so nosey people peering over the hedge can see I am allowed

but I plan improve my rain water collection efforts anyway as the climate situation is only going to get worse and I suspect as time goes on they will tighten these discretionary exemptions too.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45524
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 23 5:15 pm Post subject:

only if they notice them

that will do if needs be until they do change it, gathering more water does seem sensible as a long term plan

i have about 2000lts worth of water treatment kit and tablets just in case and a decently filthy river within half a mile, unless the water is off due to flooding in which case the filthy water would be rather closer

infrastructure failure is instant, you can plan for desert life if the rain starts failing
i have no stored water though above what i could get from the pipes, harvesting rain would be fairly easy once i made space for a big butt

i have some fairly brutal rough water collection and treatment techniques, nobody has got sick or died yet as they are good ones

in an emergency gardening water is an ideal back up store, maybe no so much in a city if you can eliminate the "zombie competition" by taking your bucket of swamp every day until they try it with no treatment cos it must be safe
id give it 24 hrs for em to go for it and a week to have a decent choice of locations to see out the "emergency"

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45524
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 23 5:22 pm Post subject:

i wonder if we are missing something re the collection area being lower than the veg place

the ground level is lower at the collection end, what about collection surfaces to potential veg plot storage?

so long as the tube is sealed, water will happily go down, along and up to the same level it started from, all the best aqueducts have sections like that
within reason, the distance does not matter if the pipe bore is sufficient for the required flow rate

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9717
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 23 8:19 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

i have about 2000lts worth of water treatment kit and tablets just in case and a decently filthy river within half a mile, unless the water is off due to flooding in which case the filthy water would be rather closer

infrastructure failure is instant, you can plan for desert life if the rain starts failing.....

in an infrastructure failure situation, we have a good clean river about 5 mins walk away, and that was how everyone in the village used to get their water in the 'good old days' I am not planning for that though... just not being allowed to water my veg patch

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 45524
Location: yes

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 23 4:39 am Post subject:
for drinking they will have made beer with it, any sort of reliable supply can be useful even if the cows use it as well

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