breeder or supplier? whats the law?

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breeder or supplier? whats the law?

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mrs p

Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Posts: 34

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 8:57 am Post subject: breeder or supplier? whats the law?

ok not sure if it goes here but heres my question

if your raising chicks ,lambs,piglets ducklings, rabbits, whatever to SELL as live to rear on or even as pets, what is the law about it?

when do people like the council inspectors, liscencers, tax etc get involved?

do you have to be a regular breeder of animals? over a certain quota? is it the minute you ask for money to exchange hands ?when?

Can anyone quote an actual case?

judith

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 22789
Location: Montgomeryshire

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 9:07 am Post subject:

It depends on the animal.

Chickens - once you have more than 50 birds you need to register your flock with Defra. Not sure how other poultry fit in.

Pigs, sheep, goats and cattle - you have to register your flock / herd BEFORE you acquire a single animal and you, your records and your animals will be liable for inspection in the same way as any farmer.

As far as tax is concerned, any money you make is income and should be declared on your tax return.

pookie

Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 4984
Location: Mid-Wales

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 9:47 am Post subject:
other poultry ie ducks, geese, turkeys etc have to be counted in your 50 along with the chickens, (so if you have 40 chickens and 15 ducks then you are over the 50 mark and have to register)

gil
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 18415

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 10:08 am Post subject:

Surely for anything to count as a business, you have to do it regularly and with commercial intent ? Otherwise every time you sold (say) your car, you would have to register with the Revenue as a car dealer, which is clearly not the case. Or, say, selling off unwanted items of your own furniture on a one-off / occasional basis.

I assume the same would go for young animals if it wasn't a regular breeding activity.

NeathChris

Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1387
Location: Neath, South Wales

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 11:01 am Post subject:
Cash sales.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 11:52 am Post subject:

judith wrote:

As far as tax is concerned, any money you make is income and should be declared on your tax return.

Yep, it took a little while to track down but here it is:

From: https://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/life/tax/tax-exempt_and_taxable_income.htm#whichistaxable

Quote:

Other types of income which are taxable

The following other types of income are taxable:-

* profits from the sale of most goods and property

Now, does that mean if I sell one plant for 50p I have to complete a tax return?

MarkS

Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2626

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 12:06 pm Post subject:

If you grew it with the intention to sell then yes.

As a rule of thumb, disposal of things you no longer want (ie used but now redundant or surplus) such as old clothes, cars, white goods etc are not subject to tax unless they are high value goods that you have made a profit on when cgt applies. regular buying and selling of such items becomes a trade.

If you are buying stuff in to sell or breeding with the intent to sell then you are in business.

marigold

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 12:18 pm Post subject:
So if you register as a self-employed plant raiser and seller can you offset all your garden centre purchases against tax? Even if you only sell one plant for 50p a year (because you are a rotten sales person)?

MarkS

Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 2626

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 12:38 pm Post subject:
No, only against tax due by the business - but I guess there wont be much profit to offset ? Course you would have to be happy with the idea of hmcre taking a very close interest in everything else you and your partner do. And then managing the appeals against their penalty determinations. Yeah. Go for it.

marigold

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 12458
Location: West Sussex

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 1:56 pm Post subject:

MarkS wrote:

No, only against tax due by the business - but I guess there wont be much profit to offset ?

Course you would have to be happy with the idea of hmcre taking a *very* close interest in everything else you and your partner do.

And then managing the appeals against their penalty determinations.

Yeah. Go for it.

Nick

Joined: 02 Nov 2004
Posts: 34535
Location: Hereford

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 4:28 pm Post subject:

MarkS wrote:

However, you CAn register for VAT, and claim it back on everything you buy for the business. Which can include a portion of your bills for the premises, fuel and vehicle servicing, cat food and dog food, and vet bills (They help you keep vermin down and burglars out), etc etc.

And the Excise have plenty of people paid to help you do this. If you're spending any money on vattable items for any business, even if, as you say, you only sell a single chicken or plant, you can claim it back. They are there to ensure you pay tax and claim back that which you overpay, regardless of how good you are at business.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 4:31 pm Post subject:

Nick Howe wrote:

Amen!

Helen_A

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: MK, Bucks.

Posted: Fri May 25, 07 11:19 pm Post subject:
Just wish that the nuggers had people to get on with the actual registrations. I registered back at the end of March and have still yet to be processed and allocated a number. They told me today that I could still be looking at another 4 weeks as they have only just got to the registrations for the middle of that month... Helen_A

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Sat May 26, 07 11:50 am Post subject:

Helen_A wrote:

Just wish that the nuggers had people to get on with the actual registrations.

I registered back at the end of March and have still yet to be processed and allocated a number. They told me today that I could still be looking at another 4 weeks as they have only just got to the registrations for the middle of that month...

Helen_A

Registering with who? For a CPH?

Helen_A

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: MK, Bucks.

Posted: Sat May 26, 07 3:38 pm Post subject:
Oh - sorry, no register for VAT for me. Although talking to a chap at our local farmers market the other week, the agriculture varieties of registration are all taking their time atm as well Helen_A

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