What do you think of my new tax proposal?

Latest Articles

What do you think of my new tax proposal?
Page Previous 1, 2, 3

Downsizer Forum Index -> Conservation and Environment

Author

Message

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 9:50 am Post subject:
Just checking

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 10:07 am Post subject:

I love the principle of the idea, but the current legislation would be difficult to circumvent.

What about changing the principle and giving tax breaks to the employee for working close to home?

I have to commute 60 miles per day to earn a decent wage, If I work closer to home then the wages aren't as good, so if the government cut my tax bill I could afford to earn less, and I'd be happier and have more time to work or be with my family.

The time cost of commuting must be huge, let alone the environmental one, it's equivalent to two hours work a day for me.

Bernie66

Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 10:17 am Post subject:
I can never grasp the mentality of those who feel macho by having to do a 40-50 mile drive each way to work. I think they feel it proves their commitment Proves they should be committed if they do it out of choice more like!

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 10:25 am Post subject:
Never realised there was a macho side to it, I just find it a hellish, depressing waste of my life.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28231
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 10:31 am Post subject:

Bernie66 wrote:

I can never grasp the mentality of those who feel macho by having to do a 40-50 mile drive each way to work. I think they feel it proves their commitment

Proves they should be committed if they do it out of choice more like!

I always thought the people doing an 80 mile round trip to my old Swindon work place were nuts

I'd take the bus to work, read a paper and get a little walking in, whilst they were stressed out on the motorway

The I got the chop, had a morgage to pay and did three interviews for new jobs. One was local interview went to paraphrase

Them - "We work hard, We play hard, we expect you to do a 60 hour week without overtime pay, arn't we macho"

Me - "Fark off"

Didn't get that one.

Next one was the 80 mile round trip:

Them - "We work hard, We play hard, we expect you to do a 60 hour week without overtime pay, arn't we macho, oh and you get a free company biro after 5 years"

Me (lesson learnt) - "That's nice

"

Got offered that one

Last one was the 160 mile round trip:

Them - "We're a small company with an exciting product, We work hard, but you can wear jeans/t-shirt, and you will be having a fun time and be in on something that may be big".

Me - "Yes please

"

Got that one and grabbed it with both hands, of course they went bust without paying the wages a year later. But I have no regrets. when the choice is between a corperate salt mine and something interesting, the commuting aspect looks a bit different.

Bernie66

Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 13967
Location: Eastoft

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 10:39 am Post subject:

I am not implying that one shouldn't or its wrong to, i just cannot fathom the Bull***t attitude of the macho commitment ideal that some companys expect and some managers play. you work to live not the other way around and that is no secret in my book.

My employer "buys my time" off me, and before i agree to work for someone i calculate the driving time and the cost to get there when considering their offer. i will give them what I consider to be value for money when in work so long as they don't try to take the p*ss.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 6:39 pm Post subject:

It's been said that it would restrict companies in recruitment but I can't see that happening- the idea surely is that people either move to be closer to work or take work closer to home? Wether it is your home or your work that you love more will determine the route you take. Alternatively, if you are so fond of both the home and work, then you can just carry on & pay the tax.

It may not be as easy for some organisations to operate (and provisions must be made for home-workers, of course) but surely that is the point? By increasing the distance between home & work we are increasing pollution & reducing quality of life- if it was as graphic as pouring waste into rivers the law would stop them but because it 'dissappears' into the atmosphere we feel more inclined to disagree with a financial incentive (as opposed to a necessary regulation).

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 7:02 pm Post subject:

What about someone who would like to have a reasonable house and start a garden. You plant a few fruit trees and then you move jobs, your company relocates, you get made redundant or you work on contracts? Why on earth should you have to move every few years? Due to appalling public transport it may take over an hour to get into London even from the suburbs so many people simply have to put in the travelling.

Some may like travelling but the reason I once did two hours each way was simply for the money. I actually do live near my and Bugs' work now and it's a horrible area and we have to put up with all the people living in nicer areas parking all over our roads so they can catch a train from our local station. Since we've been here I've had to work in 5 different locations in 5 years so should I move each time? However, it wouldn't take much to allow me and many like me to work from home. Grrrrrr.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28231
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 7:11 pm Post subject:
Can't really agree with those sentiments, our ability to commute is a modern luxury that the environment cannot afford. I have done it myself I know, but I still think it needs stopping with carrot and stick measures.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 7:13 pm Post subject:

That's the crux of it- it requires a major rethink on the part of employees & employers. From our current perspective it seems too much to deal with, but things change- it wasn't always like this & its sure not to stay the same.

It's not just an environmental concern though, the social aspects are also pretty important. The countryside has been facing these problems for years now & if it carries on the way we are going it is not going to be sustainable. I've seen the pull of work killing off our villages over recent years as many young people are forced out through a combination of low paid jobs & not being able to afford to live out here. It has a knock on effect on the local services & those that do stay find it increasingly difficult. In their place comes a load of commuters with a lot of money who can afford to travel the greater distances

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 7:23 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

Not at all, but this idea just seems to be treating one tiny part of the problem. I think a few adjustments to society could reduce the amount of travelling dramatically especially when you look at what people do. One of those random facts I remember is that something like only 11% of the people employed in the UK actually produce something and the rest are just in service industries.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 7:25 pm Post subject:

jema wrote:

Can't really agree with those sentiments, our ability to commute is a modern luxury that the environment cannot afford. I have done it myself I know, but I still think it needs stopping with carrot and stick measures.

But if you started to grow more of your own food the idea of moving around all the time would start to seem daft. There are many places where this is often one or two large local employers, if they go under does everone have to up-sticks and move? I'm afraid the idea would need far more thought.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 7:27 pm Post subject:
How then do we 'adjust' society without financial incentives/penalties? I wouldn't say this idea would solve all the problems, but it could be part of something bigger.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 8:03 pm Post subject:

Rob R wrote:

How then do we 'adjust' society without financial incentives/penalties? I wouldn't say this idea would solve all the problems, but it could be part of something bigger.

I'm not dismissing penalties but you need to think them through and make them fair. There are so many places to start first, for example taxing air travel at a realistic rate. It seems daft to make people live close to work and then let people fly all over the world at a subsidised rate. We also need to remember that laws such as the minimum wage has moved jobs abroad where the conditions a far, far worse than here. So taxing what I mainly see as office type jobs then many jobs will just move abroad (call centre type jobs) and many people may think if they have to keep moving why not move abroad as well. The UK is the highest exporter of qualified people as a percentage of population IIRC, by a huge amount.

Rob R

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 31902
Location: York

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 05 8:30 pm Post subject:
How about if this was purely a tax incentive & scrap the penalty bit- that could be acceptable. You could then slap the tax on air travel to retrieve the defecit I quite agree with the air travel thing.

	Downsizer Forum Index -> Conservation and Environment	All times are GMT Page Previous 1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

View Latest Posts