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dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 05 10:32 pm Post subject:
Newsnight BBC2 --- NOW !!

alternative-energy

Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Kent

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 05 11:26 pm Post subject:
Thanks Dougal, That's just what my wife said... Let's hope we get some more dialogue after that programme. I was in the process of searching phrase Peak Oil on main three political parties web sites... nothing. Paul

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 6:49 am Post subject:
I watched most of it, interesting to see a few of the guests in the "we'll find a new power supply or cope easily" camp. Thanks for the heads up Dougal.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 11:38 am Post subject:

Treacodactyl wrote:

I watched most of it, interesting to see a few of the guests in the "we'll find a new power supply or cope easily" camp.

Thanks for the heads up Dougal.

I missed it. Anything of note? Did anyone suggest a date for global peak oil?

Peter.

Andy B

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3920
Location: Brum

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 12:08 pm Post subject:
I wonder how many people will now not debate the issue just because the BNP have tried to pull it into the limelight. They didnt come up with any answers though.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 12:26 pm Post subject:

Andy B wrote:

I wonder how many people will now not debate the issue just because the BNP have tried to pull it into the limelight. They didnt come up with any answers though.

I'm not sure that that many people know about peak oil, and I should think that only a small fraction of them know about the BNP's interest. Very few people have come up with any "answers".

John Busby has one here:

https://www.after-oil.co.uk/

And on a more local scale, there's one here:

https://transitionculture.org/?p=129

Peter.

Andy B

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3920
Location: Brum

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 12:35 pm Post subject:

Blue Peter wrote:

Andy B wrote:

I wonder how many people will now not debate the issue just because the BNP have tried to pull it into the limelight. They didnt come up with any answers though.

A lot of people dismiss the BNP out of hand, a lot of what they say is total rubbish. But you would be suprised how many people dismiss them whilst not even bothering to read stuff.

Andy B

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3920
Location: Brum

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 12:41 pm Post subject:
Does anyone grow drought resistant GM crops that could be used for bio fuels.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 12:44 pm Post subject:

Well I read the Peak Oil link and it didn't say anything about Peak Oil or what they would do.

As for Newsnight, all I gleaned was there are many different points of view from people I assume have spent years working in economics and oil, but no one seems to be able to agree!

I think we can at least agree oil and other carbon based fuels are going to get more expensive so we can take it from there.

alternative-energy

Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Kent

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 12:47 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I missed it. Anything of note? Did anyone suggest a date for global peak oil?

A date for peak oil wasn't discussed but 2005 was seen to be pivotal in the realisation of the end of cheap oil.

Did anyone know that the second largest oil field (Burgan) in Kuwait reached peak production in November? I for one didn't...
https://www.kuwaittimes.net/localnews.asp?dismode=article&artid=37595069

The largest oil field (Ghawar) is apparently being injected with huge amounts of water to keep up pressure. If this one reaches peak production then we'll see the realisation on the world stock markets....
Glad i've got a trailer for my bike but i might have to organise security on the allotment!!

Paul

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 44489
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 12:52 pm Post subject:

umm, as the price rises there is pressure to reduce waste so extending the process , a finite supply will end . most folk would not last a month without all that oil provides them , i like some of the things oil provides such as a variety of long lasting plastics ,particulate soots and co2 emmisions are another matter as is plastic to use once and discard .if we could persuade folk to see oil as a finite but vital raw material and not as an energy supply we may have enough to last while we work on a non oil economy .those whose fortune depends upon selling oil have encouraged reckless consumption as they get the profit now ( and if sensible keep it, then give it away) often it is shareholders rather than an individual whose greed drives the system . the cause is divided from the effect which makes it harder to explain that this way of doing things is not sustainable . i like goretex and hate patio heaters .

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 12:52 pm Post subject:

Andy B wrote:

A lot of people dismiss the BNP out of hand, a lot of what they say is total rubbish. But you would be suprised how many people dismiss them whilst not even bothering to read stuff.

I don't think that I would be surprised. I'd be surprised if it were the other way round.

I, indeed, have read hardly anything by the BNP, though I did know of their interest in peak oil from a thread on the powerswitch site, and I might have read a bit of what they said then. It's possible that the BNP have useful things to say on various issues, but given that they do have a certain agenda behind them, and that there are so many other things to read (and do), I think that it's unlikely that many people will read what they say.

Peter.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 1:05 pm Post subject:

Andy B wrote:

Does anyone grow drought resistant GM crops that could be used for bio fuels.

I would guess that there are drought resistant GM strains of wheat, and those can be turned into bioethanol (there was a bioethanol thread a day or two back, with a link in which discussed the use of wheat).

Can I ask why?

Peter.

Andy B

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3920
Location: Brum

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 3:07 pm Post subject:
Take a look at where a lot of our oil comes from, and think how much growing space you would need to come close to covering modern day demand, we wouldnt have the space to grow it here but. I can think of a few places that do, and they are mostly in the third world.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 05 3:18 pm Post subject:

Andy B wrote:

Take a look at where a lot of our oil comes from, and think how much growing space you would need to come close to covering modern day demand, we wouldnt have the space to grow it here but. I can think of a few places that do, and they are mostly in the third world.

I'm not sure about that.

Take a look at:

https://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/12/06/worse-than-fossil-fuel/

Monbiot wrote:

In 2003, the biologist Jeffrey Dukes calculated that the fossil fuels we burn in one year were made from organic matter “containing 44×10 to the 18 grams of carbon, which is more than 400 times the net primary productivity of the planet’s current biota.”(1) In plain English, this means that every year we use four centuries’ worth of plants and animals.

The only way "out" is massive reduction, which is why I don't believe that it will be done in a controlled manner,

Peter.

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