Bio-energy crops

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Bio-energy crops

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Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
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Posted: Sat Dec 17, 05 5:52 pm Post subject: Bio-energy crops

I've read a reasonable amount about crops grown to produce solid biomass energy sources, crops such as miscanthus grass and willow for example.

A quick google shows a wealth more information out there with sites such as Defra listing all sorts of studies and info. ( www.defra.gov.uk/farm/acu/energy/energy.htm )

Some of the information seems a little too good to be true and growing such crops seems an ideal way to help me fund a smallholding. There seems to be various grants available, the market for bio-fuels can only increase and price paid must surely rise with other energy prices.

There's also a recent study by the GCT ( www.gct.org.uk/article.asp?PageId=78&ArticleId=160 ) that suggests some biomass crops are very good for wildlife and this fits in with what I would love to do.

The main question I have is what's the catch? At the moment there does seem to be a shortage of buyers for the bio-mass but looking 5-10 years in the future surely there will be a growing market?

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 05 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Bio-energy crops

Treacodactyl wrote:

I've read a reasonable amount about crops grown to produce solid biomass energy sources, crops such as miscanthus grass and willow for example.

............

The main question I have is what's the catch? At the moment there does seem to be a shortage of buyers for the bio-mass but looking 5-10 years in the future surely there will be a growing market?

Maybe there isn't a catch?

One possible problem is the EROEI (Energy Return on Energy Investment). Basically, do you get out more energy than you put in?With perhaps a few exceptions, any form of energy production isn't much good unless the ratio is greater than 1, i.e. you get out more energy than you put in. There are a lot of debates over biomass and what its EROEI might be, with some studies having it come out greater than 1 and some less than 1. Clearly, it is going to depend upon what your process is (if you're turning it into ethanol for fuel, then that might not produce so much net energy as simply burning the stuff in an efficient way). I think actually that a lot of the variables are things such as transportation costs, fertilizer costs and machinery costs (since, judging from other posts, you'll be hand-harvesting with nail scissors

you'll probably be okay there). However, I don't think that you'll be able to find an answer to this question, because as I say, things are so very variable.

One question that might be worth looking into is whether the yields which they quote depend upon fertilization. What would happen if you did things without artificial fertilizers?

Peter.

Treacodactyl
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Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 05 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Bio-energy crops

Blue Peter wrote:

Maybe there isn't a catch?

There must be as it's something I'm seriously considering looking into.

My other posts were to do with self sufficiency which is why I was thinking it would not be worth while paying for the harvesting as it may cost more than simply buying the fuel yourself.

This question is aimed at producing biomass commercially to be burned to either produce electricity or sold as either pellets or chipped product for home heating. I would look to buy a place that had enough room to grow a crop to produce a useful income to enable us to try our hands at other ideas that may not produce such a steady income. What I would need to do myself to grow the crops would need to be looked at as some schemes only require land, the people running the scheme sort out planting and harvesting, others seem to do the harvesting themselves.

I'll look into the fertilizer requirements as I assume the crops will need something. If they are burnt in a biomass only plant I wonder if you can use the ash to add back to the soil, together with a nitrogen fixing companion crop that could provide all some crops need.

Transportation costs to market could be a problem. A possibly daft question, would there be any mileage in converting the biomass to electricity yourself and then selling the electricity to the grid? You can certainly buy large biomass boilers from some other countries and you can sell electricity back to the grid but could you build a small biomass plant and would it be worthwhile.

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 05 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Bio-energy crops

Treacodactyl wrote:

Blue Peter wrote:

Maybe there isn't a catch?

There must be as it's something I'm seriously considering looking into.

I guess that you need to talk to someone involved in the scheme to see what the economics of it are.

As you know, I'm firmly in the "energy will be a problem in the future" camp, so I would guess that there will be a market for it, but quite how the market will pan out is very difficult to guess. Will the grid remain the preferred energy delivery system or will more local systems prove better? In the latter case, perhaps you would do better to set yourself up as a generator, but then, that sounds to me like quite a big business operation, which might not square with your downsizing aims (or perhaps they do). (Didin't Behemoth have some experience with willow-fired powerstations?)

The distance thing (10 miles for a small producer?) might be a very big problem, given that, as we known, the only affordable land is in the back-end of beyond. Not only do you have to find somewhere of the appropriate cost, etc., it has to be within 10 miles of a biomass power-station / pellet-maker, etc. That could also make you very dependent upon another business, in a uncertain market area.

The other thing to consider, I suppose, is how dependent your income would be on the various grants and subsidies. Perhaps those in the business could say, but is it wise to have a business dependent upon subsidies, which could change at a moment's notice?

Anyway, carry on the good work, since I fully intend to parasitise off anything you find out (and can Tahir do an article on all the subsidies which he's found too)

Peter.

P.S. One other thought about intercropping of nitrogen fixers, would it interfere with the presumably mechanical harvesters?

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45440
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 05 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Bio-energy crops

Blue Peter wrote:

can Tahir do an article on all the subsidies which he's found too

Will do, but I won't know what I'm eligible for till April

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 05 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Bio-energy crops

If I won first prize with my premium bonds I would simply find somewhere we can live by ourselves. However, until this happens Bugs and I need to find some way of making some money. Transport costs will be something to carefully consider.

What does appeal about producing the power yourself is that we would need a boiler ourselves anyway and perhaps a method of producing our own electricity. If we could then 'upsize' that and make money selling electricity to the grid and also collect grants that seems like a good plan, many grants will guarantee payment for a number of years so they can be used to produce a workable finance plan. We could also look into using waste heat to heat a greenhouse and even some of the power to light the greenhouse to produce earlier crops for ourselves or to sell. See, it does fit in with many of our other ideas.

Blue Peter wrote:

P.S. One other thought about intercropping of nitrogen fixers, would it interfere with the presumably mechanical harvesters?

Growing something like willow will leave stools a few inches tall and if harvested in winter many nitrogen fixes, such as clover, will die down. We can also get bees or find a local bee keeper for the summer flower crop.

There's a huge amount to think about and investigate but unlike other ideas it seems to fit in with many of the things we want to do. I can some Christmas googling ahead.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45440
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 05 2:29 pm Post subject:
Comfrey as an N fixer dies down over winter

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 05 2:31 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Comfrey as an N fixer dies down over winter

Is comfrey an N fixer? I thought it was a "brings nutrients up from the depths"-er?

Peter.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45440
Location: Essex

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 05 2:33 pm Post subject:
The leaves provide N as they decompose

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 05 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Bio-energy crops

Treacodactyl wrote:

What does appeal about producing the power yourself is that we would need a boiler ourselves anyway and perhaps a method of producing our own electricity. If we could then 'upsize' that and make money selling electricity to the grid and also collect grants that seems like a good plan, many grants will guarantee payment for a number of years so they can be used to produce a workable finance plan. We could also look into using waste heat to heat a greenhouse and even some of the power to light the greenhouse to produce earlier crops for ourselves or to sell. See, it does fit in with many of our other ideas.

I'd certainly be interested in the economics of it. I know that you can get district-sized combined heat and power units, and producing a district-sized amount of electricity would be good. But, you'd need an awful lot of greenhouses for district-sized heating. I think that you'd need quite a lot of land as well to make it viable (in terms of growing your own). You could, of course, always get biomass from other land-owners,

Peter.

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 05 3:23 pm Post subject:

Still rummaging and found a few useful ideas. One is to club together with other producers and produce your own solid fuel pellets for boilers, stoves etc.

There's a load of info out there but most of it is rather general without going into detail. A few useful FAQs answered here: www.renewablefuels.co.uk/energy2.php

There's some useful info here:

Yield Models for Energy Coppice of Poplar and Willow, Measurement and modelling of Short Rotation Coppice (SRC)

https://www.forestry.gov.uk/src

Woodfuel publications:

https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/website/forestresearch.nsf/ByUnique/INFD-6HXE9J

Treacodactyl
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 25795
Location: Jumping on the bandwagon of opportunism

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 05 4:47 pm Post subject:

I'll also order this from the Forestry Commission the "Woodfuel Information Pack", at £10 seems like a good investment. It says it "Brings together key basic information about the many aspects of using woodfuel. This includes background on the benefits, renewable energy targets and policy, sources, conversion, end users and systems."

Link here if anyone is interested: https://www.forestresearch.gov.uk/fr/INFD-66SHAG

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