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Downsizer Forum Index -> Downsizing abroad

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Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4612
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 12 11:09 am Post subject:
This situation seems to be escalating,yet there is more coverage on Al Jazzera than on UK news channels. I wonder Why?

Went

Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 6968

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 12 12:42 pm Post subject:

Ty Gwyn wrote:

This situation seems to be escalating,yet there is more coverage on Al Jazzera than on UK news channels.

I wonder Why?

Indeed....

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4612
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 8:09 am Post subject:
Gawber, Can you put us in the picture of the situation on the ground,as the snippets of news and video links we get through various channels,shows this to be exculating into what could be another 1934 situation.

Went

Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 6968

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 8:59 am Post subject:

We are a bit isolated here but..

People are angry that the measures so far taken have been based on strategies of austerity and no mention of growth - recent increases in VAT will only add to inflation. Whilst announcing the VAT rises one politician was heard to shout "Let's F*ck them" which has not gone down well as you can imagine.

In Spain, most workers have 14 pay days a year with double pay in summer and Christmas - they have scrapped the Christmas one for many. They have reduced pensions, salaries, carers allowances and benefits dramatically - they have increased taxes across the board on all financial transactions. They have also brought in legislation that makes it easy to sack people without any penalties or pay-outs.

Most manual or unskilled workers have no rights, contracts or comeback if sacked or laid off.

Whilst these strategies are necessary to a point, there is a feeling that it is the working man and woman who are bearing the brunt of these measures whilst the wealthy continue to avoid taxes and have moved assets out of the country.

There are rumours that the Prime Minister Rajoy is attempting to restrict access to Facebook and other social platforms the government seen as fuelling the backlash against them.

The Miners march on Madrid escalated to a mass demonstration where riot police used rubber bullets and arrested many.

Driving to Oviedo the other day we witness the damage from fires on the motorways from when the miners in this area were fighting with police.

Saying all this, although there is a feeling or growing anger and resentment, the Spanish people still remember times before joining the EU when times were equally difficult for many - they are a resilient lot.

There are urban developments standing deserted - a new development outside of Madrid built as a commuter town comprising of 13,000 new apartments stand like a ghost town with 10,000 still unsold. The banks have lots of toxic assets and are in trouble.

The problem with the measures to date are that it will only serve to drive things underground and fuel the black market which is already estimated to make up 30% of the economy.

It is so expensive to become self employed here with a minimum contribution of 250 euros per month, VAT payable on all turnover (upfront) and high tax rates payable 12 months up front (an estimate).

A friend who recently set up a business has a minimum contribution of 600 euros per month as he was advised to set the business up with himself as a director - he has also ben fined 6000 euros for not having the correct papers despite working with a qualified Assesoria from who he paid for advice and guidance. He can try and take the assessoria to court but it will cost too much and he will not win.

Unemployment is currently 24% and rising - and 52% in the under 26 year olds....

Rocky times ahead for many

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 9:55 am Post subject:
and we think we have it bad.

Penny Outskirts

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 10:05 am Post subject:
The less moneyed of the world have been lulled into a false sense of security for the last few decades, believing that those who have power actaully give a hoot about the rest of us. "When Adam delve and Eve span, who was the the gentleman?" Holds true today as it did in the 14th century. The only course open to many is to get out of the system

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4612
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 10:35 am Post subject:

Thanks Gawber,
One of the links i have been sent ,showed a major new Airport that was built,costing millions if not billions of euros,and there are several more like it,never had a plan or land or take off,
And appartment buildings,with one site ,with only the security man living there.
Looks like the Spanish Government has squandered vast amounts of money,and expect the workers to pick up the tab.

The Asturian Miners Strike of 1934,when Franco brought in Moorish mercenaries to smash the strikers,was the foundation of the Civil War.

Lets hope history doesnt repeat itself.

Went

Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 6968

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 10:55 am Post subject:
The other major concern for business (which I forgot to mention) is that new laws are being introduced that mean if your business contracts another business to do some work for you, it is your responsibility to ensure the business you employ is up to date with their tax, VAT and insurances otherwise you will be fined for employing them - you can guess what the business community thinks of this

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28231
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 11:16 am Post subject:

I can see the rules above as having potential impact with those that shelter behind constantly rotating sub-contractors that they know damn well engage in dodgy practices.

As ever with laws though it is all about how they are applied, quite often big business sees regulations as something they can more easily apply than small business, or equally as something they can avoid or be too big to challenge on, and again small business will bear the brunt.

Luath

Joined: 03 Dec 2009
Posts: 761

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 12:21 pm Post subject:

Re the Facebook thing; there are a lot of pics/videos appearing recently from all around the world via the Occupy movement/s, more often than not bearing the tag 'media blackout on this' or similar, so that's why we see/hear nothing. There have been tens of millions demontrating in many countries, but we have little access to the info/pictures.
Things will get a lot worse before they get better, sadly.

vegplot

Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 21301
Location: Bethesda, Gwynedd

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 2:26 pm Post subject:
Why on earth do they think that strangling the wealth generating sectors is going to help solve their financial woes. It's the one thing you should be doing your best to grow to ensure money flows within the system.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28231
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 3:43 pm Post subject:

vegplot wrote:

Why on earth do they think that strangling the wealth generating sectors is going to help solve their financial woes. It's the one thing you should be doing your best to grow to ensure money flows within the system.

I can't say I have noticed Tesco, Vodafone, Amazon and the rest of the tax evaders being squeezed over here.
Anyone else done the math on g4s, just how much a head they were being paid to provide people?
If you are not going to squeeze the people with the money, you end up squeezing those without.

Penny Outskirts

Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 23385
Location: Planet, not on the....

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 12 4:06 pm Post subject:

jema wrote:

vegplot wrote:

They probably made a concious decision not to supply people, and take the penalties.

nugger

Joined: 03 Feb 2013
Posts: 27
Location: North Florida

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 13 12:41 am Post subject:

Having worked at the coal mine were the strike started in 84-Cortonwood, I so that most of the protesters & people on TV were the ones that tossed it off at the pit, the real workers stayed out of the media. It used to make me so mad when i so these people on TV making there mouth & couldn't pick a shovel up never mind use one. Always some one looking for a fight & will use any excuse to start one!

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4612
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 13 11:28 am Post subject:
If you worked at Cortonwood,you did`nt do much shovel work,lol.

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