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gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:33 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

So in your opinion our fisheries are managed sustainably?

no sadly as yet they are not and im not sure they ever will be, the marine environment is too dynamic .... but a total ban on fishing is not sustainable
But with the quotas etc I feel that fishing is a small part of the decline in fish such as cod ... in the past 15 yrs (think) the north sea has warmed by 2degrees causing cod to move north by several miles ,as well as hydrocarbon extraction,polution (direct and indirect) and now new species moving into the ecosystem due to extra nutrients and inc temp ... management needs to intergrate these other management factors

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45665
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:36 pm Post subject:

gingerwelly wrote:

a total ban on fishing is not sustainable

Why not?

How many people worked in whaling/mining/textiles and associated industries? They're all more or less gone but we still have one of the strongest economies in the world.

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:46 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

gingerwelly wrote:

a total ban on fishing is not sustainable

Why not?

How many people worked in whaling/mining/textiles and associated industries? They're all more or less gone but we still have one of the strongest economies in the world.

yes but the idea of sustainability is to protect and meet the needs of todays population while ensuring the needs of future generations are also met ....so a total ban on fishing means the loss of a traditional industry, culture ( look at Shetland and many parts of Scotland ) decline of rural life in these areas, linked tourism etc

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:49 pm Post subject:
and the improvement of fish stock...although small does show that the management steps are working , but yes i dod think they need to be improved

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45665
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:51 pm Post subject:
So what about say a 50% EU wide reduction in capacity and quotas? Would that be sustainable? I'd say the economic impact would be negligible as wild caught fish prices are nowhere near what they should be, a reduced supply should mean increased prices mitigating the financial impact.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45665
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:52 pm Post subject:

gingerwelly wrote:

and the improvement of fish stock...although small does show that the management steps are working , but yes i dod think they need to be improved

have you got any links to data on that?

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 2:58 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

gingerwelly wrote:

and the improvement of fish stock...although small does show that the management steps are working , but yes i dod think they need to be improved

have you got any links to data on that?

as yet im not sure if its out ..DEFRA should have some ... my tutor is in Paris next monthtalking about the resluts .. so not sure if published yet

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45665
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 3:00 pm Post subject:
Well make sure you let us know as soon as there's anything that we can all see, my other question wuld be is this based on just small localised fisheries or is this a wider ranging thing?

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 3:08 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Well make sure you let us know as soon as there's anything that we can all see, my other question wuld be is this based on just small localised fisheries or is this a wider ranging thing?

Commercial fisheries ..so that looks at both, but very little information is availble for LEDC countries whos economy is greatly linked to traditional industry. also deep sea fisheries are also hard to monitor as to the lack of control in international waters, and the fact that oceanographic and biological information is realy only availble of a small % of the worlds oceans.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45665
Location: Essex

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 3:10 pm Post subject:

gingerwelly wrote:

very little information is availble for LEDC countries whos economy is greatly linked to traditional industry. also deep sea fisheries are also hard to monitor as to the lack of control in international waters, and the fact that oceanographic and biological information is realy only availble of a small % of the worlds oceans.

Hmm, not confidence inspiring is it?

What about my post on sustainability? Don't you think that makes at least some sense?

cab

Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Posts: 32429

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 3:40 pm Post subject:

I believe that after a complete moratorium of at least long enough to bring some more of the larger species back further from the brink (killing certain species that are sustainable? who are we trying to kid?). And after that, allow whaling to start again, under these conditions:

Whaling ships must be square rigger wooden ships; old fashioned wind jammers.

People hunting whales have to do it with harpoons, launched by hand, from little boats. One of them has to be called Ahab.

At least one third of the crew in whaling trips (that will last, on average, two years) will suffer from scurvy.

On a serious note, the problem with whaling is industrialisation; if its big and mechanised then it isn't going to be sustainable. If its small and heavily regulated, then it MIGHT be sustainable. But the idea of bringing whaling back in any form when stocks of some species are so low is just silly; we're never going to police it well enough to justify that.

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 9:11 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Hmm, not confidence inspiring is it?

not at all, but the amount of information is better than is was ten years ago ... but there is very little money given to developing this area .... kinda sad .. but the UK is better than most countries.
Data is only realy found for areas rich in resources such as the North Sea. In LEDC's whos economy is still dependent on tradtional industries , there is no money to improve data .... so hey can only work with the information availble, and means that management has to adapt with changing information, limiting impacts on the environment, ecology,society and economy. Its not the greatest way of doing things but its better than it has been

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 9:22 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

So what about say a 50% EU wide reduction in capacity and quotas?

Would that be sustainable? I'd say the economic impact would be negligible as wild caught fish prices are nowhere near what they should be, a reduced supply should mean increased prices mitigating the financial impact.

think the UK has lost about 39% of its boats since 1994 ...and reduced gross tonnage by 25%
so yes a 50% decrease would be great .... but not sure what impacts it would have on the economy ..... 2004 uk boats intouk ports had 397,000 t (£406,000 million) and 192,000 (107,million) into non uk ports ....so yes its a small % compared to the overall uk economy but the fishing communities are in rural areas and that amount ofmoney is very important making up the major % of their economy

gingerwelly

Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 419
Location: Wales ...in cardiff at the mo but from mid wales

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 06 9:23 pm Post subject:

gingerwelly wrote:

tahir wrote:

as for the rest of europe .. i have no idea .....

Mad Dad

Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 407
Location: Nowhere near where I want to be

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 06 8:17 pm Post subject:
If you talk to the local fishermen around my area they are of the opinion that there are quotas for the richer nations and different quotas for the poorer nations. Their point being that while our quotas are reduced and rigerously enforced, Spanish and Portugese fishermen have been given greater access to the Notrh Sea....anecdotal evidence only so dont shoot me....

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