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jema Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 28202 Location: escaped from Swindon
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tahir
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 45612 Location: Essex
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46052 Location: yes
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15834
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 22 8:01 am Post subject: |
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An increase in public transport is ideal, I must admit, and bikes have their uses, but we have got used to using a nice warm car rather than being out in all weathers. Even too many bikes can be problematical; outmuster at Portsmouth Dockyard in the days when most men used bikes was rather frightening. I saw the tail end of that, and you didn't even try to cross the road until they were past. The policeman on point duty held up the traffic for them and if a cyclist got on the wrong side, they ended up in the north rather than the south of the city, as they couldn't get to the other side of the stream.
As yet, there is still no solution of heavy lorries or full sized tractors, but no doubt that will come. The other problem, outlined already, is that if the car manufacturers choose to keep the price high and pocket the profit, many people will not be able to afford an EV. |
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Slim
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 6594 Location: New England (In the US of A)
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 22 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Mistress Rose wrote: |
An increase in public transport is ideal, I must admit, and bikes have their uses, but we have got used to using a nice warm car rather than being out in all weathers. Even too many bikes can be problematical; outmuster at Portsmouth Dockyard in the days when most men used bikes was rather frightening. I saw the tail end of that, and you didn't even try to cross the road until they were past. The policeman on point duty held up the traffic for them and if a cyclist got on the wrong side, they ended up in the north rather than the south of the city, as they couldn't get to the other side of the stream. |
Could you imagine the same number of folks in individual cars?
I have to imagine that was more an issue of infrastructure, and numbers getting out at one time. The only way it's not a problem now is that infrastructure has been improved (highways and/or mass transit) and/or the issue of so many trying to leave at the same time ceased (suburbanization, change in shifts, decimation of the local industry, whatever)
The dutch have highly efficient bicycle highways, and many other traffic systems that move cyclists efficiently. Apart from mass transit, I don't think there's any better way to move many people without taking up lots of space (like individual cars would... Heck, even if they carpooled and it was 2 or 3 to a car)
This YouTube channel has lots of great videos about how zoning and planning and transportation tech etc could drastically improve lives around the world. It's more targeted to North American audiences because the contrast is so stark and we've royally messed things up here, but I imagine some of the same contrasts he draws would apply to the UK as well: https://youtu.be/knbVWXzL4-4 |
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Nicky cigreen
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 9782 Location: Devon, uk
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Slim
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 6594 Location: New England (In the US of A)
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46052 Location: yes
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 22 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Nicky cigreen wrote: |
whenever the Netherlands are held up as a great example of promoting cycling - and indeed they are - I always want to shout that is is mostly flat terrain there, and that there is a reason why it isn't so popular in, say, hilly Devon.
Saying that, I am considering investing in an ebike, which I think might be a logical first step before an EV |
our first generation e bikes coped with all but one devon bendy hill going up, the new ones can climb far better
the cheap "commuter" types are ok in a smooth and fairly flat place, cheap off road ones are not too good on or off road
good off road ones are often good on roads and tracks which can be rather lumpy for road bike versions
you get what you pay for, and then customize it to suit your needs and body
fine if you can mostly avoid roads(even with defensive driving tweaks it is still a bike and they are in big metal things)
devon roads are either deserted with surprises or a bit busy iirc so off-road capacity to use byways and paths etc is useful(a shortcut across a golf course can save your life) and it can be quicker and easier in some landscapes
ps the 15mph motor cut out rule is dangeroos in traffic, folk quite reasonably expect a bike that gets from 0 to 15 very quickly to reach 25 to 30 soon after, then they get you from behind
this issue can be resolved, although it has legal implications to resolve it ![](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) |
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Nicky cigreen
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 9782 Location: Devon, uk
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 22 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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dpack wrote: |
our first generation e bikes coped with all but one devon bendy hill going up, the new ones can climb far better
the cheap "commuter" types are ok in a smooth and fairly flat place, cheap off road ones are not too good on or off road
good off road ones are often good on roads and tracks which can be rather lumpy for road bike versions
you get what you pay for, and then customize it to suit your needs and body
fine if you can mostly avoid roads(even with defensive driving tweaks it is still a bike and they are in big metal things)
devon roads are either deserted with surprises or a bit busy iirc so off-road capacity to use byways and paths etc is useful(a shortcut across a golf course can save your life) and it can be quicker and easier in some landscapes
ps the 15mph motor cut out rule is dangeroos in traffic, folk quite reasonably expect a bike that gets from 0 to 15 very quickly to reach 25 to 30 soon after, then they get you from behind
this issue can be resolved, although it has legal implications to resolve it ![](images/smiles/icon_wink.gif) |
I know quite a few with ebikes here - generally folk are cycling everywhere, no one is using it to get up to high speed and just hitting the button on particularly steep bits. Which we have many.
Fortunately, Devon is making good inroads (scuse pun) into making a good network of cycle paths, and my favourite is traffic free tarmac. Up until a couple of years ago I was cycling by me-power from sea level at Plymouth up onto the moors, almost entirely on dedicated cycle path. but am a bit creaky for it now and envy having that button to push. |
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Shane
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 3467 Location: Doha. Is hot.
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46052 Location: yes
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Posted: Tue Sep 06, 22 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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at 15kg even with good gearing* ours are a bit heavy unless a minimum setting is on
on full with hills is ok
fast if appropriate is essential in urban traffic, polite is essential in mixed use settings
the cut off thing at 15 is scary leaving traffic lights, crossing A roads or on a roundabout
*i had my drive gear changed for lower cadence, losing a few degrees off a maximum slope is a fair price for making it work well at 65 rpm rather than 80 rpm
our current ones are pedal power control and pedal hub motor, ie we need to pedal but it more than doubles it if you want it to, the old ones had twist throttle or pedal control and a rear hub motor, not as nice although the grip throttle was useful for a rolling rest or uphill walking it
devon is hilly, good brakes are essential, discs both ends seems wise, good disc brakes, the downhills were a bit scary and i come from the pennines where a few roads are 1 in 3 in parts
ps it is not about high speed, it is about urban traffic speeds without a rough power cutout just when it is most likely to kill you
it can be about a power cut out on a moderate corner, try taking your foot of an accelerator a third into a corner, don't it can become messy for steering and for folk around you trying to predict your vectors(most are rubbish anyway)
Allegedly my motor will still help at 30+ on perfect tarmac with the front forks and tyres set hard
i have never needed more than 20 ish to be safe on urban roads as agility counts for a lot as a survival skill
that 15 cut off point was ill chosen, probably by a committee that have no practical experience of the effects of that on real world riding
as an example, down hill to a visible and smooth but tight corner
if you go in at 15+ and want to accelerate out to stick to the line it has to be human powered if you can as you bleed kinetic energy
tweaked the motor will pull as well, and you can come out at 15+ rather than slide off sideways or have a wobble trying to hold it and pedal too hard
ps i have often been overtaken by human powered ones, some of which were ridden safely
my feeling is i will do my best not to get hurt or hurt anyone, furious riding has no place in my life
unless i am dodging road things a gentle float along or an interesting obstacle track off road route at low speed is fine
another good reason for good brakes is sudden stops, they can be required for assorted reasons, e bikes have extra mass and often are loaded with stuff as well
the sort of brakes that will work on a stepper are not up to the dynamics, double discs and preferably good hydraulic ones
another brake thing, they are best separate from the control gear, our gen one bikes cut the motor if the brakes were applied, these adjust the motor depending how hard you press a pedal
much nicer
sorry i am talking about a serious investment for this sort of e bike, they are nice and practical and safer than floppy bits of carp with poor control gear and worse running gear though
they are based on these we both have shock absorbing seat posts, racks, i have a gear upgrade, we both have very good tyres, i had my handle bars made shorter, both of us have chosen different pedals to off the shelf, etc
considering the two frames and power/control stuff are the same apart from the paint we both have created a bike that suits us for an extra few hundred quid and some upcycling from older bikes and some paid for advi ce and tuning works(high hundreds if all the bits were new)
even though i am not young fit or healthy it can be practical transport for some tasks including shopping(see racks and bags and ting) and it is fun on daft surfaces and slopes and as a way to cover distance that i could no longer do on foot
tt also uses hers as work transport if she needs to visit a school or go to a meeting
flat city or lumpy country the same sort of parameters are important
we have tried a few "courtesy" ones when ours were being maintained etc they are very shonky and scary to ride let alone ride in the real world
our first ones were a bit mark one landy crossed with a model t ford
after chopping and tweeking these are more class b quatro crossed with a silverline pram
ps can it hit a random potato and you stay on? that is down to the bike as much as you, stable under stress is important both sides of the saddle |
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Shane
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 Posts: 3467 Location: Doha. Is hot.
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46052 Location: yes
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Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15834
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dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46052 Location: yes
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