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NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4628
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 23 9:33 pm Post subject:

dpack wrote:

nice moos, showing my ignorance and trying to mend it

are the different colours, conformation, horns etc related to the personality type of the individual ?

ie can you pick for "robust" and fairly independent or "domestic" but needing an easier life by looking at them?

robust even if not aggressive can be rather too exciting if you have a different plan to theirs, robust upset and angry is more efficient than domestic upset and angry, but for some regimes robust is a primary requirement.
if you can use domestic ones, it does make life easier and perhaps longer but the most benign and happy moo can accidentally squash you so never get careless

second question, they seem to have different regional origins, which might be best suited to red cheshire?

Good questions!

Character doesn't seem to depend on physicality but I do try to pick out relaxed cows - both for my sake but also if they are highly strung they will spend time on high alert instead of grazing. They don't have to fight off wolves, in fact they are on public access sites so ideally they need to ignore dogs entirely. They are also now fine with main roads, train tracks, and military aircraft practising overhead

Robust I choose by physical type - I like a deep body on short legs - and by the type of land they have come from. I probably wouldn't buy from a nice farm in the south with green grass and sunshine! Younger ones have thrived on grazing and browsing only all year, older cows had a harder adjustment from a "normal" paddock plus daily sugar beet. As/when I get more animals, I plan to select harder for good feet, udders, etc. My older cows have some compromises there. Maybe in future older breeding cows could be coddled a bit but weanlings and in-calf heifers sent up the hills to be "tested"?

The website has broken in a few spots but there is a bit about the regions https://ancientcattleofwales.org/about-2/the-cattle/colours/

I've heard it said that horned animals are more secure because they know they could defend themselves, not sure if there is any truth to that, I couldn't pick out a general difference between Longhorns and Shorthorns in character.

I looked up Creuddyn Bridge, I don't know a herd there but there is one nearby on the A487. I bet there are plenty that aren't on facebook etc.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 12:00 pm Post subject:

thanks, moo lore is fascinating, the subtleties of breed and type can be the difference between just about managing and death or bankruptcy.

public access is a consideration, i had a few passing ramblers that had met the herd and the herd were a herd. once they had calmed a little ,hearing what upset them usually led straight to them not knowing moos and not understanding curiosity
they were more upset by me explaining being upset by a bull was daft and he only wanted a neck massage, and that the steers and nursing mothers are the defensive ones

one of them complained there were moos where the footpath line was, a few feet off the map path but protected by the electric back line was a very good path between the same gates

i spose we have a duty of care, but so do those who ramble etc, and they usually do not know the moo rules ie be sensible and adapt to or manipulate moo mood, and certainly cannot "read the mood" of the moos

the herd mix is worth consideration, steers or moo and heel or bull and cows or natural mix herd with all of those sorting the social stuff between themselves?
all have different dynamics which need matching to the land, regime and human/moo interactions

moos and footpaths can be fine or very dangeroos, some of the public are predictably "difficult", if you do have public access /footpaths as a minimum make sure you have taken reasonable steps to prevent problems, if you can separate the public from the moos without mentioning it helps

i would wade a ditch or wriggle through thorn to be a safe rambler, most ramblers don't, some seem to assume farmers should adjust a business to suit them taking little bonzo for a stroll across a herd's dining table

Old-Chads-Orchard

Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Malpas, Cheshire

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 12:08 pm Post subject:

Ah yes access. The fields have a PoW at the top which I am going to fence off from the pasture, will mean losing about 1/2 an acre of useful ground but would rather than than allow muppets to wander about with the moo's. Currently have an issue with some leaflet on the Bishop Bennet Way having poor instructions so that walkers who cannot follow metal signs follow the leaflet and end up in the farm yard about 1/2 a mile off the path. New fence should stop that. Plan to spend this year preparing for moo's and look at getting some next year now.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 1:02 pm Post subject:

re horns, are they made to kill or to dig through snow? is a good question when looking at potential moos, both are ok if you know what to expect

sabre or trenching tool?

it does not give a firm marker for personality, but it does indicate damage capability during accidents or deliberate aggression

blunt force is slightly better than big hole and blunt force

thinking of such, learning more than the basics of pre-hospital trauma life support and having a few useful bits of "first aid kit" seemed sensible
"first aid kit" can be improvised, knowledge cannot

farm life has different parameters to "expedition" etc but there is a fair bit of cross over, not least in that assistance might take a while to arrive and be too late without good immediate interventions

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4612
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 1:06 pm Post subject:

NorthernMonkeyGirl wrote:

The website has broken in a few spots but there is a bit about the regions https://ancientcattleofwales.org/about-2/the-cattle/colours/

I've heard it said that horned animals are more secure because they know they could defend themselves, not sure if there is any truth to that, I couldn't pick out a general difference between Longhorns and Shorthorns in character.

I looked up Creuddyn Bridge, I don't know a herd there but there is one nearby on the A487. I bet there are plenty that aren't on facebook etc.

There used to be a herd of Glamorgan cattle on the Margam Park
estate,very similar markings to Gloucester cattle breed.

The Welsh Black of Pembrokeshire mentioned in the article were the Castle Martin a big rangey cow,a farm further up the mountain where i used to live milked them for a number of years.

Rhyd y Gof is the farm in Creuddyn Bridge alongside the A482,1/2ml past E J recycling,he has kept coloured Welsh for the 36yrs i`ve been here,Lewis Jones it is i believe,if you want his number,let me know.

On the map of herds on the link,there is a Gof herd,but more towards Tregaron but it did not give owner details,i`m wondering if they are one and the same.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 1:56 pm Post subject:

Old-Chads-Orchard wrote:

hi there, planning some of the potential issues out of the equation at the first stage is sensible
moos and the public is a big un if it goes badly
the public will be silly eventually, and prevention is better than plausible duty of care issues later

re the public a mix of physical and psychosociological tactics seems to work
using 1/2 an acre differently* and buying some fencing in exchange for separating them from moos sort of accidental interactions.
if they have a moo problem they were in the wrong place, rather they did not expect it to happen

*finding a fun and nice use for a barrier strip might be a gain rather than the loss of 1/2 acre of moo food
in the greater scheme of things 1/2 acre is useful but useful as a nice barrier seems best

NorthernMonkeyGirl

Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 4628
Location: Peeping over your shoulder

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 7:46 pm Post subject:
Lots of schemes just now for woodland creation, could be a nice use for a scrap of land, bonus public access to trees benefits?

Old-Chads-Orchard

Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Malpas, Cheshire

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 7:57 pm Post subject:
Will use it to extend my orchard, want to steer well clear of grants & schemes.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 23 10:23 pm Post subject:

a gooseberry hedge could be productive and rather good for perimeter control

grannie used them for 2 legged foxes in the fruit trees

iirc you ferment ? if so gooseberry wine is splendid if you use good dessert types, the big, red when ripe ones, are very nice

separate "the public" and the moos is wise

i consider myself a slightly informed member of "the public" but prefer not to amble through somebody else's moos

grants+- etc they can be useful if that was what you intended anyway, schemes are often schemes for those who arrange them

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15952

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 23 9:22 am Post subject:
If you put up fencing I would make it mesh of some sort to minimise dogs in field. If a dog runs into the cows, not only may the cows be upset but owner of 'dear doggie' may try to rescue it, which can end badly for all. Orchard is a good idea.

Old-Chads-Orchard

Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 394
Location: Malpas, Cheshire

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 23 10:14 am Post subject:
Will be sheep netting / barbed wire. Just acquired a load of cherry, damson & apple trees to plant out the dead space.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 23 12:36 pm Post subject:

nice choices of top fruit

re sheep netting the last lot i bought was only 150m but a significant cost (more than the trees), the price for very similar products varied a lot between suppliers, iirc the posts were fairly local to here and most online were similar prices, the net/wires came from the home counties and were half the price of some being advertised locally

that was to divide a mown area from a community orchard with"wild flowers" etc. no sheep, but it has survived the public and well-behaved dog owners are welcome on both sides of the fence, kids bouncing on the top line not so welcome but easy mended
i did put 50 rosa rugosa along the fence line as a start to the hedge:wink:
rose hips from those are the best for food, drink and medicine

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15952

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 23 9:26 am Post subject:
Good choice of hedging Dpack. They have thorns, but not as vicious as some things, good flowers and berries and the smell lovely. Old Chad, sounds like a nice orchard.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 23 11:31 am Post subject:
i had forgotten how nice they smell and the long flowering season(bees etc) they easily layer, so any gaps only need a peg or rock on a runner to fill up in a year or two fast-growing if pruned a bit birds like the fruit once bletted and will deliver assorted seeds to the hedge line

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 23 11:34 am Post subject:
ps i think mine were about 50p each as 3 ft tall bare rooted maidens

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