|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/menu_margin.png) |
Author |
|
Message | ![](templates/downsizer2009/images/menu_margin.png) |
|
Ty Gwyn
Joined: 22 Sep 2010 Posts: 4603 Location: Lampeter
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
Slim
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 6595 Location: New England (In the US of A)
|
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 23 12:20 pm Post subject: |
|
There are some separate but interacting issues. From a climate perspective, electrification of as much as possible is critical to minimizing future society costs. (A stitch in time saves nine....)
Would have been much cheaper overall to have made these decarbonization pushes decades ago, but it's only now that we can easily see the real world consequences of greenhouse gases from the '90s. So efforts now may help for the climate in a couple decades, unless we reach enough assorted thresholds for some big rapid consequences (more mass migrations, dwarfing what the world already sees, more extreme weather, eating up resources that could be better used, dinging the global economy, etc)
So, very much a "the best time to plant a tree was 30 years ago, the second best time is now" situation.
So that means we need more people using more electricity.
Building sciences have been in a constant state of evolution, and focus on one approach has often led to new learnings, but also been impacted by changing economic realities, which is why thoughts of insulation, air sealing, appropriate technologies and appliances, etc, keep evolving.
Thermal solar hot water panels used to make some sense. Now they don't. It makes more sense to use the same roof space and upfront investment to just add more solar electric, especially if combining with a heat pump water heater. A solar thermal setup could add to that and reduce electricity usage, but the ROI often wouldn't pencil out now, and then you have issues of plumbing running through roots, etc.....
There was an interesting push towards massive insulation so that almost no energy was needed to hear a building. But folks have since penciled out the ROI and realized it may be better to just get very well insulated, and spend the same upfront cost on solar and a heat pump, etc.
Insulation and air sealing understandings and approaches have had to keep changing. A new building may be well served by one approach that would not work well for an old building. Whether to put insulation on the inside or outside depends mostly on air sealing, and air exchange, and where you anticipate water vapor to condensate.
I think the problem mostly comes from the very human habit of finding a tool that works very well for one problem and attempting to apply it to to many other problems. A bit of that is fantastic experimenting that teaches us new things, but too much leads to problems when individual circumstances are not well considered.
Insulation, air sealing, and energy efficient/decarbonized heading should all be considered holistically, with the first two being prioritized. The cheapest energy is still the energy not needed. Once the heating demand of a building is lowered, the energy needing purchased is much lower.
But electricity costs are a separate but intertwined issue. I don't understand the UK electricity pricing issues, but even if I did, energy markets will continue to evolve and change. I can only speak to my circumstance, and we've aimed to take control over our costs. We no longer have to worry about how expensive propane will or will not be next winter. The loan repayments we make on our pv solar setup are less than we would be paying for the equivalent electricity, but we benefit from net metering, having purchased when costs were lower and interest rates were lower, ymmv. We're needing new cars, and we're going to keep driving ours until we can affordably get new electric ones. We expect to be able to get them for about the same cost as new gas powered cars, but I'm pretty frugal and will be working hard to find the best deals and incentives and expect I can probably get us vehicles for much less than many folks spend for typical gas cars (but that's probably true of any vehicles I try to buy). Anyhow, when the time comes, we'll either invest in more solar generating potential, out just plan to purchase from the grid. Either way, I will know what my cost per energy unit will be for at least the coming year, if not the coming decades (depending on if we invest in more PV or not), leave the house with a "full tank" every time and not have to worry what the cost at the fuel pump is. That's gotta be worth something to anyone, regardless of how they feel about decarbonization.
If we do things right, and as battery technologies improve, we may get to the point where we can use EVs as whole house batteries in combination with our solar, and completely detach from the grid, and have no utility bills other than internet service.
Folks who don't know to think about appliance lifespans, maintenance and replacement costs, etc, may still get caught off guard, but that's true of any energy sources..... |
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15840
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46061 Location: yes
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
NorthernMonkeyGirl
Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 4621 Location: Peeping over your shoulder
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15840
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46061 Location: yes
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15840
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
Nicky cigreen
Joined: 25 Jun 2007 Posts: 9787 Location: Devon, uk
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46061 Location: yes
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15840
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
dpack
Joined: 02 Jul 2005 Posts: 46061 Location: yes
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
Mistress Rose
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 15840
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
jema Downsizer Moderator
Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Posts: 28203 Location: escaped from Swindon
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
Slim
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 6595 Location: New England (In the US of A)
|
|
|
|
![](templates/downsizer2009/images/spacer.gif) |
|
Archive
Powered by php-BB © 2001, 2005 php-BB Group Style by marsjupiter.com, released under GNU (GNU/GPL) license.
|