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tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45665
Location: Essex

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 1:45 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

This might just be a reflection of EVs being too expensive in the beginning..
everyone is quoting figures from HPI, eg autocar who state that 3 year old EVs are 8% lower in retail price than diesel. and 14% lower for 4 year old cars.

From that article:

â€œSome of these vehicles can't get any cheaper, so we might find that they increase in value over time as consumer demand increases."

Nicky cigreen

Joined: 25 Jun 2007
Posts: 9869
Location: Devon, uk

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 2:35 pm Post subject:

tahir wrote:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

From that article:

â€œSome of these vehicles can't get any cheaper, so we might find that they increase in value over time as consumer demand increases."

in other words, at the moment, ICE vehicles are holding their value better than EVs but this might change. or it might not. All sorts of factors can weigh in - it will make people hesitate to make an investment in a new EV.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 2:45 pm Post subject:

personally I am the kind of person who buys a car and sticks with it to

Quote:

the end of its life,

ummm, several of mine have been obtained, sometimes improved and kept until end of life

the one that had several buckets of engine scraped off the M5 was definitely end of life

it was not really built for that sort of thing, if it had been pampered it would now be a fairly useless collectable

a few hot tweaks and a bit of running gear fettling, lasted 18 months as a london car with the odd push it journey

eat miles in the post shuddering zone was a bit too much for the rods and bottom end

a proper blues brother moment, bang, windscreen covered in oil, rolling blind towards a halt from far too fast
turned out ok, then the instant replacement with a tiny fiat was ace for a couple of years until gaffer tape could not keep it from migrating to the great scrapyard

etc

until it breaks has various interpretations, bits of several broken ones can be fun

im far too mad max to advise on "normal" family vehicles beyond, if you want to keep it a long time ensure all the bits that wear out are easy to replace at a reasonable price

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8899
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 4:35 pm Post subject:

Nicky cigreen wrote:

gz wrote:

Now if I could get an E Rifter at that price..

I'm afraid that my petrol Berlingo is going to have to keep me going for a while..I've had it for 6 years + of its 20...

such a useful size/shape car - great for bikes.

And large white goods and boxes of pots and and and

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28232
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 24 7:26 pm Post subject:
looking at used EVs on autotrader I'd say the cheaper EVs have stopped decreasing in value and may even be increasing as people realise they are a good buy. Of course though it's all waves on a beach with the tide coming in, every release of a new better and cheaper EV sends a downward pressure wave.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28232
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 24 10:44 am Post subject:

Battery claims
The following link is to the complete list of claims I have been compiling.

https://martindavidwalker.blogspot.com/2024/09/battery-claims.html

The new claims in the last week are as follows.

October 18th 2024, Chery to launch solid-state battery in 2026 and launches fast charging LFP batteries now
The solid-state claim is an aim of 600wh/kg in 2025 which would casually give EVs more range than most ICE cars with a much lighter battery than in current EVs.
The LFP claim is 400 km of range on a 5 minute charge, but the batteries seem far less energy dense than what CATL and BYD are offering. Cycle life is 3000 e.g. good for easily 600,000 miles.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/10/18/chery-to-launch-solid-state-battery-in-2026-and-launches-ultra-fast-charging-6c-batteries-now/
October 14th, 2024 Hyundai aim for 300wh/kg LFP batteries in 2025
This invites a number of responses!
Is it pure hyperbole? Some of the article gives that impression, but a claim of 2025 lends credibility.
300wh/kg takes a typical 210 mile range LFP EV from 2024 and makes it a 350 miles range EV with a smaller/lighter/cheaper battery.
Plus of course LFP has advantages over Lithium Ion, there are no controversial Nickel or Cobalt and you can charge to 100% as a matter of course. Never mind the fact they are cheaper and far less prone to thermal runaway and have much greater cycle life.

https://electrek.co/2024/10/14/hyundai-develop-industry-leading-300wh-kg-lfp-ev-batteries/
October 12th, 2024 quick and easy Sodium battery anodes
Perhaps not very exciting, but a good example of the innovations that constantly drive the costs of battery production down. Good news for sodium batteries is good news for Lithium prices and hence good news for EVs.

https://techxplore.com/news/2024-10-quick-easy-anode-materials-sodium.html
October 10th 2024 more fast charging news from an unlikely source!
Fast charging claims come thick and fast. This one is still in the lab, but hey it's a slow news week and it's an interesting read.

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/future-tech/new-doped-solid-state-batteries-can-charge-80-cent-just-nine-minutes

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28232
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Oct 27, 24 11:04 am Post subject:

Battery claims
The following link is to the complete list of claims I have been compiling.

https://martindavidwalker.blogspot.com/2024/09/battery-claims.html

The new claims in the last week are as follows.

Pay attention this week to the sheer number of solid state claims and the youtube video at the end!

October 24th 2024, CATL develops a long range PHEV battery utilising sodium ion technology
This seems to be as I suggested would happen years ago a hybrid battery where a sodium layer buffers a lithium battery for operation in -40c conditions. It is intended for use in range extending PHEVs where an ICE tops up the battery and is not part of the drivetrain. Personally I think that sounds extremely problematic, liquid fuel has a shelf life and with 400km range outside of an abnormal use case it would create problems.

https://carnewschina.com/2024/10/24/catl-launches-battery-for-phevs-with-400-km-range-and-4c-charging-for-bev-like-experience/

October 24th 2024, China's GNE develops lithium sulfur batteries with 700wh/kg energy density
The claim is that life cycle issues have been â€œmitigatedâ€. Forget cars! That sort of energy density would change the face of aviation and trucking. Plus Lithium Sulfur has a theoretical limit of 2,600wh/kg.

https://www.ess-news.com/2024/10/23/chinas-gne-develops-lithium-sulfur-battery-with-energy-density-of-700wh-kg/

October 24th 2024, Quantumscape begins production of 300wh/kg solid-state batteries
Small scale production being sampled to automakers. Its cells are the first anode-free solid-state lithium-metal cells ever produced. The charge time is under 15 minutes. Once again this would turn 210 mile range EVs with LFP batteries into having a 350 mile range. Remarkably this is the fourth similar reputable announcement this week.

https://electrek.co/2024/10/23/quantumscape-begins-production-b-sample-solid-state-cells-oem-testing/

October 23rd 2024, Harvard seek to take fast charging solid-state battery to production
Claimed to have a 6000 cycle life, which equates to over 2 million miles and 10 minute charging. As ever lab to production line is the rocky road.

https://electrek.co/2024/10/23/harvard-solid-state-battery-charges-in-minutes/
October 21st 2024, What happened to the million mile battery
I don't habitually include youtube videos or generalized pieces, but I am making an exception here as it is really educational, packing a lot into 15 minutes.

https://youtu.be/ksGUMbXJ4Eo?si=vLbjmIDOpHl4oWzx

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28232
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 24 11:20 am Post subject:

Battery claims
The following link is to the complete list of claims I have been compiling.

https://martindavidwalker.blogspot.com/2024/09/battery-claims.html

The new claims in the last week are as follows.

November 3rd 2024 SoLITHor achieve a 1000 cycle 384wh/kg solid-state battery for aviation
The production process is compatible with existing battery production processes.

https://www.solithor.com/en/media/1238/press-releases/solithor-reaches-1000-charging-cycles-with-over-80-capacity-retention-a-key-milestone-in-its-development-of-solid-state-batteries-for-the-aviation-and-maritime-sectors

October 30th 2024 Zinc batteries with 100,000 cycle lifecycle.
This would drastically reduce the cost of grid storage.
https://www.tum.de/en/news-and-events/all-news/press-releases/details/significant-extension-of-zinc-battery-lifespan

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28232
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 24 12:03 pm Post subject:

Battery claims
The following link is to the complete list of claims I have been compiling.

https://martindavidwalker.blogspot.com/2024/09/battery-claims.html

The new claims in the last week are as follows.

November 8th 2024, more tripe about Toyota going to produce magic batteries
It's a slow news week, so I wouldn't bother with this usually, but it's an exercise in critical thinking and compare and contrast with the other announcements. I won't insult anyone's intelligence by explaining.

https://www.topspeed.com/automakers-on-notice-toyota-745-mile-solid-state-battery/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 24 3:34 pm Post subject:
having tried i cannot remember a classic toyota some lasted/compared well compared to most of the usa and uk equivalents(which were very carp and not hard to better for the same price) over sell the future has been a theme for some time re EV stuff as they are well behind the curve

gz

Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Posts: 8899
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland

Posted: Sun Nov 10, 24 9:02 pm Post subject:
We have been driving a Toyota Estima in NZ..it was a teenager two years ago when we saw it last... of course no salt is used on the roads there....

Mistress Rose

Joined: 21 Jul 2011
Posts: 15952

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 24 8:45 am Post subject:

Cars do last a lot better than they used to in the UK as well. A 5-10 year old car was usually full of rust, but these days one of our vans, after over 20 years of driving through mud off road, has had the chassis rewelded and is still going strong; now 23 years old. Ford Ranger. Our previous car was getting a bit expensive to repair each year, but good for a fair bit yet and was 15 years old. We don't do a lot of miles, but with the state of the roads these days, I don't think that is bad going.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28232
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Sun Nov 17, 24 2:21 pm Post subject:
The following link is to the complete list of claims I have been compiling. https://martindavidwalker.blogspot.com/2024/09/battery-claims.html The new claims in the last week are as follows. November 14th 2024, Ehang flies solid-state The battery has 500wh/kg and is touted for mass production in 2025. https://newatlas.com/aircraft/ehang-solid-state-battery-evtol-test/

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Sun Nov 17, 24 4:29 pm Post subject:
if true and practical, another step forward to making fossil history tarriffs and drill baby drill might show intent for fossil for as long as poss

Ty Gwyn

Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 4613
Location: Lampeter

Posted: Sun Nov 17, 24 7:02 pm Post subject:
[quote="dpack:1522534"]having tried i cannot remember a classic toyota, Land Cruiser,Celica and Supra.

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