Shellfish questtion

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Shellfish questtion
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Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 05 7:37 am Post subject:

You won't have an real legal problems with collecting shellfish, but you do need to be comfortable that the water quality is acceptable. A good start is the MCS good beach guide, which you can find here

Crabs aren't filter feeders so they are less of a problem. From an edible perspective you will mostly get green shore crabs and velvet swimming crabs. Both a small, with the former being the smallest but they are excellent in bisques and seafood stews and the velvet can yeild a surprising amount of firm sweet meat from it's claws and muscular rear legs.

If you have a deep spot close in you may be lucky and get some smallish brown crabs, snorkelling is a good method or the hand line and mackerel you used as a child!

If you are going for mussels and cockles, forage at low tide and then even get as far out as you can (safely) as you will be taking shellfish that spend the majority of their time in the sea, so they will be larger and tastier than ones further up the shoreline.

Don't forget winkles and on a really low tide you can try for razor clams.

And if you get lucky, remember the golden rules for cooking shellfish.

Good luck.

2steps

Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 5349
Location: Surrey

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 05 9:58 am Post subject:
thank you Jonnyboy. Looked on that site and our beach is MCS recommened so thats great I love prawns and ate a mussel once in spain I've never had shellfish other than that but have been reading how to cook them safely. Will look up some recipes depending on what I find, if anything. Do you know if there is a website where I can find out tide times?

dougal

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 7184
Location: South Kent

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 05 10:28 am Post subject:

Jonnyboy wrote:

... you do need to be comfortable that the water quality is acceptable. A good start is the MCS good beach guide, which you can find here
Crabs aren't filter feeders so they are less of a problem. ...

The MCS guide is concerned *only* with *sewage* contamination, basically shit and germs.
https://www.goodbeachguide.co.uk/pages/info_2.php

Now filter feeders (like mussels for example) do pick up those contaminants, but their systems, and those of things like crabs will be digesting the shit and fighting the germs.

And anyway, the worst that such poisoning should do to you is give you a tummy upset.

Personally, I'm more bothered about *industrial* pollution - heavy metals and even pesticides that are *not* broken down by the organisms.
Such things are *concentrated* as one goes up the food chain.
The classic example is Minamata. The mercury was concentrated in the people who ate the tuna, that ate the things that ate the shelfish that filtered the mercury out of the water.
Check this page, especially about 1/3 down, the paragraph "The Science"
https://www1.umn.edu/ships/ethics/minamata.htm
The mercury level in Crabs was found to be 7x higher than in the (filter-feeding) oysters.

So, I'd say if there was *any* question whatsoever of *any* industrial pollution in the area, you'd be safer with the filter feeders than the crabs...
Grimsby, eh? (Ignoring irony of fishing heritage, goes off and consults map...) Being fussy about such things, I'd tend to steer clear of the Humber estuary - there's (been) a *lot* of heavy industry upstream... however there's fairly wild coast North of Spurn Head and South of Cleethorpes isn't there?

And another thing, 2steps - don't restrict yourself to foraged Mussels. As per a previous discussion on the subject of fish farming, Mussel farming is ecologically, sustainably, etc, etc perfectly OK. Waitrose (rarely cheap) offer Scottish rope grown (IMHO the best) Mussels for only a little over £3 a kilo, (plenty for two)... And note that they don't store at all well...

Jonnyboy

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 23956
Location: under some rain.

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 05 7:47 pm Post subject:

Fair point about heavy metals, but it's worth noting that the town in question had almost their entire protein intake from fish and shellfish in that bay. We are talking a far lower potential exposure here in a time of far greater emissions regulation.

We can only make our choices based on the information readily available, TC-99 from sellafield has been found in shellfish as far away as Norway, unfortunately as our government isn't overly concerned about it's 200,000 year life span, information about it's absorption closer to home isn't readily available.

The alternative to a calculated risk based on probability is not eating anything from our seas.

2steps

Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 5349
Location: Surrey

Posted: Sun Sep 11, 05 8:08 pm Post subject:
when we are on the beach at cleethorpes I do see quite a lot of ships going by. mercury would be a big concern for me because of its connection with neurological disorders, my son has adhd already I've only lived here a year. I've been told there is much less fishing here now and more food production

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Tue Sep 13, 05 8:14 pm Post subject:

wise advice so far . the northsea is patchy as far as pollution goes it depends on many factors , the same factors apply to bought food but then you have to trust people with a profit motive as you do not see the source . be sensible ,research your local area ,check gov reports , independant reports ,trust to your common sense . as a general rule the further you are from people the safer the food is but the dodgyest places can be well hidden and are often remote .ps limpets are chewy but not a bad flavour and among the safest shellfish as they are grazers . discard the dark bits and use the foot in stews or mince and make burgers they really are tough but tasty and wholesome.

zigs

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 524
Location: Somerset

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 05 8:53 am Post subject:
found a bit about minimum size here https://www.defra.gov.uk/news/newsrel/1999/990312a.htm and this will give you tide times https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast/tides/ last went cockle picking in the summer, very nice too

2steps

Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Posts: 5349
Location: Surrey

Posted: Sat Sep 17, 05 5:49 pm Post subject:
thank you ziggy

zigs

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 524
Location: Somerset

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 06 4:07 pm Post subject:

my pleasure 2steps, how about that for a long pause before replying

have just eaten my first ever blue mussels - delicious.

went fishing yesterday with a friend from anglers net, he brought a big bag of mussels & a cuttlefish as bait. he & my mate caught all the fish, i just blanked. was given the bait as he left just before us so cooked the cuttlefish up for breakfast & had the mussels for sunday lunch.
discarded all the open ones & the ones that floated on the top of the cleaning water. cooked the rest in fish stock & they all opened.

waste not want not

StuP

Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 123
Location: Aberdeenshire

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 06 11:48 am Post subject:

Hi

There are some health concerns with shellfish, particularly filter feeders such as mussels. Some areas of the coast are occasionally prone to red tides - algal blooms. These algae produce toxins that accumulate in filter feeders and can, in extreme cases, cause paralysis. The South East coast of Scotland where I grew up is prone to these - the blooms appear in the Firth of Forth and drift south along the coast.

It's worth checking with the relevant government agencies for safety advice for your area. Good places for info are:

https://www.shellfish.org.uk/

and:

https://www.food.gov.uk (search for "shellfish poisoning")

I personally have eaten limpets, winkles and mussels collected from the beach but always after checking with the authorities.

dozy

Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 1

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 07 12:30 pm Post subject: red tide

Hi
Im totally confused about how to add to this discussin.I have been reading about red tides and how dangerous they might be to all animals and humans.Is there antwhere you can get information of them occuring in England or is this too rare an event because the water is too cold etc. Is it only to worry about in places like Florida

StuP wrote:

There are some health concerns with shellfish, particularly filter feeders such as mussels. Some areas of the coast are occasionally prone to red tides - algal blooms. These algae produce toxins that accumulate in filter feeders and can, in extreme cases, cause paralysis. The South East coast of Scotland where I grew up is prone to these - the blooms appear in the Firth of Forth and drift south along the coast.

It's worth checking with the relevant government agencies for safety advice for your area. Good places for info are:

https://www.shellfish.org.uk/

and:

https://www.food.gov.uk (search for "shellfish poisoning")

I personally have eaten limpets, winkles and mussels collected from the beach but always after checking with the authorities.

guyandzoe

Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 78

Posted: Wed Feb 07, 07 4:51 pm Post subject:

I know I'm very late to this one. But....

There is a public right of shellfishery around the UK shore. Shellfish do not 'belong' to anyone. However, where, for instance someone keeps/farms oysters or say,mussels then they may be granted a Several Order which literally (litorally) severs the public right to take those shellfish.

Our coastal waters are graded for shellfish health/purity - for instance here Little Loch Broom is a Grade A shellfish water. The grade will determine if shellfish can be commercially gathered and if so what degree of depuration (if any) is required.

Defra (the fish labs I think) monitor shellfish and will close any waters considered to be unsafe. Notices will appear in the papers and should be in local post offices too. PSP (paralitic shellfish poisoning?) and DSP (something to do with diahorea) are the main problems (and to do with red tide).

You have a Fisheries Inspector in Grimsby who will be able to give you local advice as well as tell you what you can or cannot do.

guy

gnome

Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 730

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 08 8:52 am Post subject:

shellfish tend to go off very quickly, so there can be a problem with food poisoning. there is an old trick for "cleaning" filter feeders such as cockles and mussels - as soon as you get them home, put them in a bowl or bucket of water with a layer of oatmeal at the bottom. leave them in for a few hours, and they will eat the oatmeal, and excrete out anything nasty, so they are totally safe to eat. personally, i've never found it necessary to go that far though. some people are more prone than others.

a word of caution though. because shellfish become toxic when they go off very quickly, it is essential that you cook them alive. i know many people think that cruel, but that's the correct and safe way to prepare them. if it is dead before you cook it, you are taking a risk. that's why i won't buy cockles or mussels from supermarkets ready prepared - i've seen the "professional" cockle pickers at work on Morecambe Bay, and they gather vast numbers of cockles in string sacks, then pile them up by the shore waiting to be picked up by the lorries and vans. shellfish dont survive long out of water, and a few hours in the hot sun will certainly kill them. people employed to pick cockles thse days know nothing about shellfish or tides for that matter - they are just cheap labour.

You can usually tell if a cockle or mussel is dead - it wll frequently be slightly open, and won't close. if a cockle does not open within a few seconds of being dropped into boiling water, it is also most likely dead, and may be unsafe to eat.

one last note - be wary of tides, and don't wander out too far. some areas can have shifting patches of quicksand that are quite lethal, so stay close to the land.

dpack

Joined: 02 Jul 2005
Posts: 46196
Location: yes

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 08 9:42 am Post subject:

i never have liked large flat areas ,like morecome ,and find rocky coast sites best for gathering .this has it's own hazards but decent boots and common sense make it fairly safe if you study the tides and dont get cut off on a rapidly reducing rock or slip and fall.
in some places even fairly large fish get stuck in rock pools but small ones can also be tasty
mixed fish ,invertibrates ,seaweed and shore plants can make a great meal
somewhere i have technicium figures for uk over the lat 30 years ,it is about 10 % of peak levels at last count but there are a few places where a day on the mudflats will give one a years exposure level
te is mostly in the shells and not in the meat and iirc one would need to eat several kilos of the wrong winkles per day to get ones dose limit .as the thorpe plant is offline (40 tons of reprocessing acid solution leaked into the digester hall oops )and the uk has plenty of pu there is no need for them to use the discharge pipes for the leftovers of plutonium production so the te load discharged has dropped to almost nothing

gnome

Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 730

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 08 12:19 pm Post subject:
yeah - some people are a bit put off by the nuclear power plant just down the road at heysham - but i say " a bit of radiation didn't do spiderman any harm" what is more of a worry is the bird sanctuary. when the tide is out, the bay is full of sea birds, and it is their droppings which make the water quality so poor - and what the cockles feed on. many people won't even swim in it.

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