Can I afford to be a downsizer

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Can I afford to be a downsizer
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sean
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 42219
Location: North Devon

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 05 1:24 pm Post subject:

Blue Peter wrote:

tahir wrote:

100% agree, Sean and Andy (selfsufficientish) are prime examples of other equally valid approaches

Can I ask what Sean and Andy do (should I know

)?

Peter.

Not telling.

Oh alright then.
We lived in SW London until two years ago. Mandy teaches, and I worked for Oddbins (which was where we met, because Mandy worked for them too at that point). For various family reasons Mandy suggested moving to North Devon. She applied for a job in Bideford and got it. I jacked in my 'career' and we moved down here. I now do freelance copy-editing, indexing and proof reading. More importantly I'm around to see my son rather than getting home at 11pm, we've got an allotment, one car (which does about 7000 miles/year), and we shop locally and daily.
It's all good, IMHO, though it's taken a bit of adjustment. And it helps that I really enjoy cooking.

Nanny

Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 4520
Location: carms in wales

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 05 1:25 pm Post subject: afford to downsize
i don't disagree with you as it is about where you find yourself and where you want to go from where you are in effect what we would end up doing would be upsizing in terms of space but downsizing in terms of employment if that makes sense. i am well aware that i am fortunate enough to be able to even think like that when there are lots more people in towns who can't

Blue Peter

Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 2400
Location: Milton Keynes

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 05 1:32 pm Post subject:

sean wrote:

I now do freelance copy-editing, indexing and proof reading.

Including the latin in the posts here

It's all beginning to make more sense,

Peter.

jema
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 28232
Location: escaped from Swindon

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 05 2:37 pm Post subject:
One thing and there are many I like about this site is the way we seem to have a respect for other peoples approaches to downsizing. A recognition that it is more about a state of mind, that about some lifefstyle check list

alison
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 12918
Location: North Devon

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 05 8:05 pm Post subject:
Tahir You don't get concessions for water in agriculture, but if you are on mains drainage you can have a second meter installed and any water that does not go to the house can be taken out of the sewerage charge calculation.

tawny owl

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 563
Location: Hampshire

Posted: Tue Jun 21, 05 8:54 pm Post subject:

Judith wrote:

2) Get rid of your debt. And that includes the mortgage. If you have any spare cash - chuck it at the mortgage. It is probably your largest outgoing. Do everything in your power to get rid of it.

Definitely - should be anyone's top priority. Ignore all the financial advisors, and if you have more than a couple of thou's worth of savings, and in particular, if you're self-employed, switch over to a flexible mortgage. That way, you can put extra money in, and if you need it, take it out again (watch out for supposedly 'flexible' ones that only let you put it in!). In the meantime, you're earning money in interest, which pays off more of the mortgage, and unlike a savings account, because you're using it to pay off a debt, you pay no tax on that interest. It's particularly useful for self-employed people, as you don't have to pay tax until the January after the tax year ends (i.e. for the 2004/2005 tax year, ending April 2005, the taxman gets his cut in January 2006), so you can put all your tax money in there working, and take it out when needed. Even though the APR is generally slightly higher on these, they're still well worth having.

tahir

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 45665
Location: Essex

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 05 9:27 am Post subject:

alison wrote:

You don't get concessions for water in agriculture, but if you are on mains drainage you can have a second meter installed and any water that does not go to the house can be taken out of the sewerage charge calculation.

Ta for that Alison

Behemoth

Joined: 01 Dec 2004
Posts: 19023
Location: Leeds

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 05 9:35 am Post subject:

And that's the way it should be!

You can extraxt from water courses with a license from the EA. Or even drill a borehole which I don't think needs permission (check). You can also build you own reservoir to collect over the winter. But if this involves dams or berms you get into engineering, health and safety territory.

Pouring agricultural quantities of drinking water on crops is an expensive wat to do it.

Andy B

Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 3920
Location: Brum

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 05 10:07 am Post subject:

You dont need to live in the countryside to down size, just use less. We now buy any furniture we need from auctions, amazing what you find. We will never grow all our food, but we grow some. Foreign holidays will know stop, we took the kids to Paris on a cultural visit a few weeks ago, but that will be the last for a while. We have cut back on telly use and try and spend the time with the kids playing or talking. I think downsizing can be about state of mind as much as anything.

wellington womble

Joined: 08 Nov 2004
Posts: 15051
Location: East Midlands

Posted: Wed Jun 22, 05 12:21 pm Post subject:

I agree that downsizing and smallholding are seperate (although you can do both together) But I also think that contrary to ITV's beleif, it doesn't have to be a big jump. You can downsize alsorts of ways without moving to the country and growing all your own, even though that's what a lot of people are aiming for (including myself!) We've been working on it for years, and although at some point there should be a move, it won't be 'it' When we do move, I expect us both to still be working, but to gradually drift towards working more and more part time - we have both retrained in order to be able to do this - and eventually be self employed in our trades. In the meantime (In order too move out of the sout east, I need a job out of it!)

I have been downsizing and learning skills that I will (hopefully) need once we jump, in order for us to be more self reliant, like making soap, jam, stuffing, gravy, mayonaise, growing salads and cutting out the supermarket. When we move, I won't automatically suddenly have all the farmers wife skills I'd like - so I might as well start to master some of them now. I think to downsize you need diifferent attitudes and skills, and you can start getting those anywhere, you won't become a different person if you move house, so you need to change sometime - I think you might as well get started while you pay off the mortgage (I think in order for us to enjoy downsizing and not be pressured by income all the time (which must be very depressing) we need to pay off most of the mortgage and feel our home is safe, without income, otherwise it would be just like going to work, and I've always felt that turning a hobby or something you enjoy into work is a mistake - but that's just me!)

Dunc

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 134
Location: Lancashire

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 05 12:47 pm Post subject:

wellington womble wrote:

contrary to ITV's beleif, it doesn't have to be a big jump.

Loads of good and very true comments on this topic, but this one leapt out at me. It is absolutely spot on.

Downsizing can be very gradual, and for most people to make it work it has to be planned out over a period of time. It's not usually about diving in.

Blue Sky

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7658
Location: France

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 05 12:57 pm Post subject:

Dunc wrote:

wellington womble wrote:

contrary to ITV's beleif, it doesn't have to be a big jump.

True, it doesn't have to be a big jump ..... but it can be (if one is bold enough).

We jumped in the deep end and are still afloat after two years of toil. Foreign country, didn't speak the language (by hell, we do now) new, uncultivated land (it isn't now) and a first time go at keeping animals (we have a porker, 10 hens, 2 rabbits aswell as the rat catchers (5 cats).

In addition to this two young boys (aged three and two) and a new baby, one week old. I am not meaning to blow my own trumpet but just to make a point that it is possible if one cares to try. It is very hard work. We do not work as such. We get to spend all our time on the smallholding and grow as much as we can. We have no debts (inc. mortgage). Our only income is the very small EU child support payout which we are happy to take as we have paid enough national insurance in the past.

Maybe I should have posted in the "introduce yourself" thread?

Nanny

Joined: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 4520
Location: carms in wales

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 05 1:21 pm Post subject: afford to downsize

what you did took guts simon but you've done and i admire and envy you

presumably as well you are younger than mr nanny andmyself which also has a bit to do with it

you get closer to that pay out from the company and it gives you pause.then they go and move the goal posts anyway so we may very well have to wait an extra 5 years to get the dosh which also gives you pause.

the only hope we have is:

they may not change the retirement date to age 65

or

if we go anywhere else we can now tak the whole pension fund with us to buy another pension and not just our own contributions

mr nanny is now thinking seriously about his future horse -wise which may lead to an alternative career in a few years time though never highly paid but it's what he wants to do

we keep on dreaming the dream and adjusting it to suit the current circumstances but we never give in and we carry on downsizing in what we can

Blue Sky

Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 7658
Location: France

Posted: Tue Jun 28, 05 1:27 pm Post subject:
You are doing a good thing Nanny, however slow it may seem. Good luck to you. I would not say that doing things gradually isn't the best way ... it probably is. Just that we chose not to. P.s. 35 & 30 so maybe we did have that advantage Have fun, however you choose to downsize. Simon

sprinter

Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 42

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 05 8:23 pm Post subject:

I do like this thread although I admit to joining it a bit late in the day.

Some honest postings and not just giving the rose tinted glasses perspective.
I would come from a smallholders point of view rather than a downsizer but have had similar conversations with a number of people on this theme recently.

There are so many variables involved it would be foolish to carve then in stone but here goes.

Firstly, it usually (but not always) is more expensive to produce your own foodstuffs than buying them in a supermarket. Particularly when setting up. Again it is not a given but recently I have come to realise that there maybe about 3 levels of production. I live alone and could comfortably rear a pig for my own consumption and be in pocket, because I could do the majority of feeding from waste products.
A family of 3 or 4 would obviously consume more than me and would have to buy in commercial products for feeding as they would need more pigs. This would not make it financially viable against supermarket products.
If that same family wanted to say double their pigs to sell some on, it is doubtful that they would make a profit at all and highly likely that there would be losses.
If you are a commercial farmer looking at buying in foods etc in volumn then that is where the business plan comes in.

I do say this tentatively because other costs incurred are killing and butchery costs and also travel to the nearest slaughter house. It could be a couple of miles down the road, it could be a 3 hour drive. Same with the feed. If you produce and roll your own oats then the food costs would be lower.

Again if you look at where your home is located and the land quality. In some areas of the UK the killing out weight of an animal can be 25% less than other areas at the same age purely because of land differences.

I suppose it is the money aspect I am focusing on because smallholding ain't cheap. Certainly not when you are learning and setting up.

I can't see how a family could take on a smallholding with a mortgage without an outside income. When people say, what can you make money on, I wince because I really do believe that there is not much left that you can.

Be honest when working out your sums. Don't overstretch yourself financially. Don't be that desperate to leave your current environment that you swap one kind of stress for another.

Good luck to all of you who make it and are happy. It is the most we can ask.

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