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Barefoot Andrew
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 22780
Location: In the 17th century

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 4:50 pm Post subject:
Can I just say beesontoast, great name A.

joanne

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7100
Location: Morecambe, Lancashire

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: bees

beesontoast wrote:

The BBKA is now owned by Bayer, and refuse to make any connection between bee deaths and pesticides.

That is simply not true and slanderous to say so - I personally don't agree with the ruling on the proposition from the recent ADM but it was put to a vote and the majority of the reps there wanted to maintain the links - Lancashire voted against - Thats how democracy works - I do believe that there will be a review and that the logo is to be removed from current insecticides until that review is completed

beesontoast

Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 21
Location: Devon, UK

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: bees

jocorless wrote:

beesontoast wrote:

The BBKA is now owned by Bayer, and refuse to make any connection between bee deaths and pesticides.

Democracy means one member, one vote, as far as I am concerned. The ADM vote was carried after shameful propaganda by a clearly biased executive. If they had said to the membership 'Should we do this?' instead of 'This is what we did behind your backs 8 years ago, now we want you to rubber stamp it', then I might have some sympathy.

Show me where on their web site the BBKA acknowledge the possibility that pesticides may be a significant contributory factor to CCD (as now recognized by many researchers) and I will withdraw the remark.

Until then (and I'm not holding my breath) here is the history of this shameful episode - https://www.britishbeekeeping.com

lottie

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 5059
Location: ceredigion

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: bees

jocorless wrote:

beesontoast wrote:

The BBKA is now owned by Bayer, and refuse to make any connection between bee deaths and pesticides.

That is simply not true and slanderous to say so

A lot of long time beekeepers don't believe it is slanderous ----it can't be slander if it's true.

Tavascarow

Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 8407
Location: South Cornwall

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: bees

lottie wrote:

jocorless wrote:

beesontoast wrote:

The BBKA is now owned by Bayer, and refuse to make any connection between bee deaths and pesticides.

That is simply not true and slanderous to say so

A lot of long time beekeepers don't believe it is slanderous ----it can't be slander if it's true.

That only time will prove.
IMO its DDT all over again & from what I've read the chemical companies are playing just as dirty as they did back in the 1960/70s.
I'm glad I live in a predominately pasture area, well away from beet & OSR although maize is grown locally within flight range.
The british government (regardless of which party is in power) shows again they have no balls & are pandering to bayer et all as much as the BBKA, when Germany France & others have already banned Clothianidin & research by reputable researchers (not crackpots) from around the world is stacking up against these chemicals I personally can't see a case for slander.

joanne

Joined: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 7100
Location: Morecambe, Lancashire

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: bees

beesontoast wrote:

jocorless wrote:

beesontoast wrote:

The BBKA is now owned by Bayer, and refuse to make any connection between bee deaths and pesticides.

I've read your website before and I'm well aware of your hatred of the BBKA - you can write what you want on your own website

I agree that there is a very strong case for the idea that pesticides are part of the CCD problem and it needs much much more research

I just don't think its particularly constructive way of engaging folk on a site you've just joined - Many of us who are Beekeepers are also members of BBKA affiliated clubs and have received alot of advice and help from dedicated folk who run these clubs and Associations - these people are the real BBKA and it's unfair to them

Our Association voted to end the connection with the Chemical Companies and I'm sure when Martin Smith comes to our club to give a talk he will be interrogated about why it was passed at the ADM - infact I can guarantee he will because our branch was not happy about the result from the ADM

beesontoast

Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 21
Location: Devon, UK

Posted: Mon Feb 09, 09 10:28 pm Post subject: Re: bees

jocorless wrote:

I've read your website before and I'm well aware of your hatred of the BBKA - you can write what you want on your own website

You are wrong, I don't hate the BBKA. Far from it, in fact - the reason I am so critical of its current executive committee is that I care about the BBKA - and I am very angry that it has been corrupted and mis-directed by a handful of lackeys, apparently in the pay of - or at least - very much under the influence of - some of the most unsavoury players in the agri-chemical industry.

I only wish that the bulk of the BBKA membership had woken up and stirred themselves to action. Unfortunately, despite the efforts of many people who also care about bees and the institution that has represented them in Britain for so many years, the likes of Lovett and Smith and Davies had their way, and now they are free to spread their pro-chemical, pro-GM message to all and sundry as if they had the blessing of the majority of members.

I'm glad your BKA voted against the motion - would that more had spoken up.

lottie

Joined: 11 Aug 2005
Posts: 5059
Location: ceredigion

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 09 9:56 am Post subject: Re: bees

jocorless wrote:

I just don't think its particularly constructive way of engaging folk on a site you've just joined - Many of us who are Beekeepers are also members of BBKA affiliated clubs and have received alot of advice and help from dedicated folk who run these clubs and Associations - these people are the real BBKA and it's unfair to them

When a member of a site joined shouldn't have any bearing on the views they can express---I haven't just joined, and have been a member of the BBKA, more recently WBKA for several years and have a great deal of sympathy with the views this poster has expressed

lizardwyn

Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 20
Location: Oxfordshire

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 09 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: bees

jocorless wrote:

beesontoast wrote:

jocorless wrote:

beesontoast wrote:

The BBKA is now owned by Bayer, and refuse to make any connection between bee deaths and pesticides.

I'm on your side beesontoast, and I think as the whole truth of this matter comes to light, all beekeepers will feel the same xxx

alison
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 12918
Location: North Devon

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 09 9:20 pm Post subject:

As an update.

I ahve had 2 members of the apairy come and visit. They are 99% certain that my bees starved to death, because of the cold weather.

Even though there was still food in the hive the cold air space around the food meant the bees did not break from the cluster to feed.

We discussed the use of an eek, and insulation etc, and the method to be used now, on my site will be the feed placed over the hole on the crown board, and then the lid put ontop of that.

chez

Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 35935
Location: The Hive of the Uberbee, Quantock Hills, Somerset

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 09 9:29 pm Post subject:
Well, that's good in a way, Alison; at least you have an explanation; and can be pretty sure they were free from actual disease. Someone near me was raising nucleii last year and was telling me that he is planning to do the same this year. If you can't find any locally when you are ready, I can enquire if you would like me to.

jamanda
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 35056
Location: Devon

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 09 9:37 pm Post subject:
Well I guess at least that's better than having got something nasty that could reinfect a new colony.

beesontoast

Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 21
Location: Devon, UK

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 09 9:38 pm Post subject:

alison wrote:

You can tell at a glance if they starved - they will be head-first inside cells, looking for the last dregs.

It is actually less common for bees to starve in cold weather, as they tend to go into a state almost of suspended animation and eat very little. It is when the weather starts to warm up in February and March and they move around more on the comb, and the queen starts to lay again, but there is little forage and the air is still too cool for longer flights, that starvation is more likely.

alison wrote:

We discussed the use of an eek, and insulation etc, and the method to be used now, on my site will be the feed placed over the hole on the crown board, and then the lid put on top of that.

It is important to keep heat in the hive, especially in winter, so leaving a hole in the roof is a bad plan. Better to feed fondant now inside the hive, and put plenty of insulation on top.

Even on a hot summer day in Britain, the air around the brood chamber is warmer than the air outside - around 95 deg. F. Therefore, whenever you open your hive, you are causing the bees extra work. Also, varroa cannot reproduce above about 92 deg. F, so keeping your bees warm will help to control them as well.

alison
Downsizer Moderator

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 12918
Location: North Devon

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 09 10:17 pm Post subject:
They were all bum out, which I remembered afterwards. I will be interested in more nuks this year.

deanom

Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 93
Location: Lincolnshire

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 09 1:51 am Post subject: BBKA ADM vote

Hi all

I was at the ADM, representing Lincolnshire, and voted against the resolution to allow the use of the BBKA logo, and to take money from the pesticide companies. I spoke against both motions. The vote was a fair one, even though I disagree with the result.
What is suspicious is that reports of chemical residues in collapsed colonies were available well before the ADM, but did not appaear in the BBKA news, or Beecraft, until after the voting took place.
The good news is that with a significant number of votes against, the BBKA will need to tread lightly on this, and as links to chemical contamination, including varroa treatments, become known, will need to adjust their policy.
The best way to change policy is from within. Get inside. Complaining at the margins is less effective.
I suggest that you also look at the BBKA stated policy of building up a reserve of two years subscription income. The affect of this is that we are paying more than we need to.
On the question of feeding fondant, try making your own. Sainsburys sell Fairtrade cane sugar, and you can use Lemongrass essential oil as an attractant to lead the bees to the food. I also add chamomile tea, and salt to the mixture.
Sorry to hear about your bees dying. I had the same problem last year, and fed early this year.

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